I recently had an interview with the head of secondary of a school I shall not name. Without going into many details, it didn't really take me more than a couple minutes to realize I would not want to work with this person (saying he/she was insanely self-centered and narcissistic would be an understatement).

There was a lot of nodding from my part, and I literally gave monosyllabic answers and even then the interview took over half an hour (as this person just really liked the sound of his/her own voice).

Anyway, there were several times where I kind of fantasized about stopping the interview right there and then, but I just kept nodding and being polite.

Any similar experiences? Have you ever stopped an interview on the spot to tell a school they are not what you as a candidate are looking for? Any similar fantasies you don't carry out at interviews?

Asking for a friend (I had a similar situation but fortunately I am now a happily licensed teacher).

if someone does not have a teaching license but does have international teaching experience and a relevant Master's degree, would the ACSI certificate really make a difference in this person's CV? Or is this certification really only relevant for people working at a Christian school? Just wondering if it would be worth getting for someone in the situation previously described. I am of course aware that the ideal for this person would be to get a proper teaching license but let's just say for the sake of argument that getting a teaching license is not an option for this recruitment season, and this person wants to find a new job for August 2020.

Thanks again.

Some followup questions on the MA Provisional license if I may. I have just looked it up and it states "Valid for five years of employment; however, starting on July 1, 2019, an educator who holds one or more provisional licenses may be employed under said license(s) for no more than five years in total.". I'm just wondering how this would relate this being effectively a "lifetime" credential. Is it that the 5 years only count if employed in MA? The official information also seems to state that it cannot be renewed.

If I am understanding correctly, for this provisional license all that is required is to have an undergraduate degree (in my case evaluated through NACES) and passing the tests? Not even experience? If I understand correctly, these tests are only done in MA, correct? Also, is it not an issue that I am not a US citizen, lacking a SSN, etc?

Also, out of curiosity: what is the AO pathway for pursuing QTS?


I apologize for all the questions; it's a bit hard not being used to the system!

Thanks for the useful information.

Another different hypothetical context for the same case: if, before my Business studies, I had studied (but not completed) a degree in French, and can produce transcripts showing courses adding up to 30 credits; would these by accepted in order to cover the coursework requirements? Would a NACE evaluating company evaluate course by course a transcript of an unfinished degree?

Can you think of any other routes by which someone with a B.Sc in business but experience teaching a modern language might be able to get a teaching license? Other than Teach Now I mean...

I've been reading about the CT experiential route for obtaining a CT license. I understand that with enough experience, they waive the initial teacher training (planned program) requirement (you do need a valid University degree of course).

However, their website also states:
"However, all coursework, degree, testing and any experiential requirements must still be met".

Testing requirements relate to the testing requirements for the specific field someone is requesting a license for, as well as the experiential requirements. However, I don't understand what they mean by "coursework" requirements? Would you need your Bachelor's degree to be on the same field? Or a specific amount of University credits on the subject field of the license? If so, I'm not sure how the experiential route really provides a benefit to experienced teachers without a teacher preparation program. Or am I understanding this wrong and as long as a person has a university degree, enough teaching experience and passed the required tests would be able to obtain a CT license even if the Bachelor's degree is unrelated with the specific field of the license and teaching experience? I.e. can someone with a B.Sc in management but several years of experience in Drench take the required tests for modern language French license for CT and apply for that license through the experiential route?

Thanks for the clarification on terminology.

I do wonderwhat alternatives are there other than Teach Now (and I don't really know how easy/difficult it would be given the school may not allow for this (how do "prospective teachers" do Teach Now?).

I read a bit about Teacher Ready, but it seems that non US citizens need Florida Residency and employment or otherwise they just receive a "certificate of completion". Would that certificate be considered as a valid "state approved teacher preparation program" that allows for the Hawaii license?

Any creative solutions that allow Robert to use his M.Ed. degree?

Thanks again.

Thanks GrumbiesMcGee. You are right in pointing out the fact that certification and license may not be the same thing. I had been reading up on Teach Now (which calls their program a "certificate" even though they actually mean that you can get a license I guess). Anyhow, Robert is looking for a license from an accredited body to avoid future employment issues.

Robert does have a bachelor's degree; however, please note that Robert is not a US citizen and his degree (Business Administration) has nothing to do with his teaching experience and would have to be validated in the US (should not be a problem, just stating it would have to). Regarding the "iffy" degree; the degree is perfectly valid under the eyes of PR's government education agencies, and it was a demanding 2 year program. Unfortunatley, as a non-US citizen, Robert was not fully aware of the whole regional accreditation thing in the US or how PR is considered a "separate" entity or not from the US for certain aspects depending on the country assessing qualifications. But that's not the case; having clarified a bit more on the context and need for a "license" I look forward to hearing any ideas/possibilities.


Thanks again

As a side note:
Teach Now seems an option, but their website is not too clear on how the practice teaching works, or for example alternatives if the person doing the program cannot perform these at their current school. It actually mentions that the program receives applications "from current and prospective teachers " but I'm not sure how that would work for a prospective teacher if they do not have access to a classroom. Not Robert's situation, but he does not count on his school allowing him to do this.

You seem to know your stuff in regards to alternative routes to certification and I wanted to ask your opinion on a hypothetical case.

Someone, let's call him Robert, is a Spanish teacher. Robert did an online masters degree in teaching Spanish from a university in Puerto Rico, and this helped him land a job at an international school in southeast Asia (this was some years ago). However, Robert does not actually have an actual teaching license from the US (as his program did not lead to certification). Furthermore, although his program is locally valid in Puerto Rico as it is registered with CEPR (Puerto Rico's Council of Education), the University is not regionally accredited by any of the 7 American regional accreditation agencies. In practice, this means that some countries may choose not to recognize Robert's degree.

Any ideas on possible pathways for Robert to get a teaching license? Would completing a program like Teach Now or similar be the only choice? Can you think of ways around being able to use Robert's degree to at least shorten the time needed to obtain a license somewhere/somehow?

Unfortunately, given PR is part of the US, I imagine that it would not be possible to have the degree be evaluated to a US equivalent and then go through Hawaii or similar...

What possible pathways are there?

I would invite you to read the full text (if you have time, it's quite long). The short version is: the law follows the data, with little relation to where it ultimately ends up stored (provided they are somehow related to EU, as Search is). That is why certain businesses/websites simply will not work when you try to access through an EU IP address as they simply worried about breaching the law.

In any case it was just a hypothetical question, nothing else. I agree that if someone tried to do that they would find themselves banned from Search pretty quickly.

Just curious,

I am no expert in GDPR, but I was wondering what would happen if a Europe-based teacher requests from Search Associates all data they store based on GDPR? Given Search is UK based I assume they have to follow GDPR, but I am wondering if then this means they would have to turn in all your information including the confidential references past employers may have filled in?

Any GDPR experts? I just thought about it and found the idea interesting.

expatscot wrote:
> My concern
> is that these HT are less likely to have been trained in the UK, so their understanding
> of curriculum and teaching is more likely to be based on local expectations which
> may be different to those in the curriculum in which they are teaching. I'd have
> the same concern back in the UK, for example, with a headteacher from England being
> appointed to a school in Scotland who has never had experience of the Scottish curriculum.

And that is why I insist there's too many "maybe"s... If it is a school doing IGCSE with a local head that has not been trained or worked at IGCSE schools then yes, of course that might be a problem.

Then again, there's many schools that can have (i.e.) the DP as their only guidance for curriculum in high school, not responding to the US or UK curriculum as such, and in that case I would not be so weary necessarily of a local head provided he/she has experience in dealing with that specific curriculum, has been trained, has been working at that specific IS for a while, and if have interviewed with him/her and I'm happy with the conversations we've had... And these would be the same things I would be expecting of a non local head, so the part of him/her being local would not be so important for me in this scenario.

Again, it all depends... t0o many variables.... too many if/buts/maybe to just generalize...

@wrldtrvlr123 : I am not offended, at all. It would seem you are though... Please excuse me if I offended you by stating that bluntly stating that a school having a local head should be a red flag sounds prejudiced in nature and that we should avoid generalizing. I was, in fact, not stating anything too different than what you yourself said about there being many bad western schools with western admin...

Also: I think your understanding or view of what an international school is, is quite limited (my personal opinion); a school being "international" is much more than one that has western teachers in non-western setting. IS can take many many forms: American schools in asia, British schools in Africa, schools that have no specific nation-denomination but with an international curriculum and diverse student body, but also schools that may not have such a diverse student body but do have international programs in place with a wide percentage of international faculty, and many others. It's very, very debatable: some people might say that (i.e. not making reference to any specific school) an American school with over 90% american students and 90% american teachers running an american curriculum somewhere in Japan is less international than an Argentinian school with an Argentinian head teacher having 50% international staff, diverse student body and running the IB continuum. And the thing is, people come to this forum for many different reasons, including finding information about schools like both of the previously mentioned examples.

Anyway, again, sorry if I offended you by stating that raising a red flag on a school based on a head teacher's nation of origin sounds quite prejudiced and that we should not generalize.

I will stick to that point though (the not generalizing). There are too many "it depends" on that equation... maybe in some regions more than others.... maybe depending on the specific individuals.... maybe depending on the specific school... maybe depending on the personality of the teacher and how open minded they are... maybe it can be a red flag.... maybe it can mean nothing at all...

Wow, it's so disheartening to see the ugly sides of this profession where people who claim to be internationally minded think "international school" means "western school" (whatever "western" means by the way), and that a "non-western" head teacher is probably a red flag...

Great to see that bias and discrimination are alive and well in the international teachers market...

Personally, I think that like many things regarding the IS world (and the world in general): you should not really generalize. I have seen absolutely horrible head teachers and people in leadership positions that have been trained in the US, UK, Australia, etc. I have also seen some great ones. I have also seen horrible local head teachers from places around the world and some really great ones.

Sure, training may have something to do with it, but for leadership positions I find moral fibre and an understanding of the institution and its people to be of much more value...

To Shad: I get your point, but I still think you can't really generalize like that. Many international schools have also a good amount of local teachers; when the head teacher is not local, they don't get the benefits you are referring to, but they do when the head teacher is local. There are always two sides there... I have also known great local head teachers who have been at it for so long, that they do have the expertise, knowledge and understanding of the "nuts and bolts of managing an IS".

Also, I don't see "graduating from a program in a Western country" as any sort of quality guarantee. Not at all. Many "local" universities in many cities in the world have high quality programs... Sure, maybe not in random small cities in difficult locations, but there are certainly good education programs in certain parts of Asia, SA and even Africa...

Again, all I am saying is: don't generalize on this. Each case is difference. Don't assume that having a local head teachers immediately means the place is not worth your time...

Unfortunately Psyguy, you don't know everything.

To the OP, yes, some states will allow private schools to have people without a US license to teach. PM me if you want the info. I know of at least one... and of another school that can also make it happen due to diplomatic ties and such...

I can say by a close experience that it depends on the state. In some states (Georgia, for example), independent schools can pretty much hire whomever they want. A visa, however, is a much more tricky thing. Schools will often get you on a J1 (teacher exchange) visa for the first 2 to 3 years. After that they could sponsor a work visa, but they would need to prove that your position can be clearly better filled by you than by a local. Some schools have the connections and budget for this to happen, but they are few. There are also other specific cases of schools that work (for example) with the U.N. and thus can easily make this happen.

If you PM me I will be happy to provide a couple of examples....