Challenger...and how many PYP schools have you worked at?

Nice response Debbz! I am glad that I don't work in 'your' school...I do believe that Conant was referring only to extra-curricular activities and not "supervision duties, assisting students outside of classtime etc". These were elements that you chose to read into his question.

Conant - I think that there is a definite divide regarding the payment of staff for coaching. International Schools with an American 'flavour' will almost certainly pay staff a stipend for coaching, while those with a British influence will most likely not. In the latter example it is usually expected (contracted) that all staff will offer an after school activity once a week. However, in my experience there are a growing number of 'international' schools (i.e. those that could perhaps be described as Anglo-American) that do pay for coaching. It is always a question well worth asking at interview if you are keen to coach.

Hi samuraiwriter,

Certainly no intent to get combative on my part and I apologise if I came across that way. However, it is a problem when people make gross generalisations (or claim truths) based upon a limited experience - often gained in one school and (perhaps) soured by poor administration of a programme. Surely, as teachers we work hard to encourage our students to avoid this?

I agree with you completely about your statement regarding best fit. Perhaps I was a bit too combative in trying to make the same point :-)!

Panglosser:

With the exception of point 1 you seem to be a little confused between what you claim to be 'truth claims' and your own opinion. A dangerous trait in an educator...

In response to your truths:

1. Exactly right...there is nothing new about the claims of MYP ideologues. The MYP has been developed over the past 15 years by teachers, and it continues to develop. It is based on good teaching practice. For many this is nothing new, just an articulation of what good teachers do.

2. I asked you to give me an example of incoherence...you just tell me it is a serious claim.

3. I disagree with YOUR OPINION that the MYP is a shallow programme. That the language of the MYP is evidence of this is not a 'serious claim'. It is a shallow argument that shows poor knowledge and understanding. It would most definitely lead to a poor level of achievement if this was used in a paper written for me.

Please do go ahead and challenge my assumptions...I promise that you will get an answer.

Senator: I hope that you are putting your money where your mouth is and that you quite simply refuse to work in a school that offers the IB. I for one would refuse to work in a school, or educational programme, that did not clearly put the students at the centre of its purpose for being.

You are clearly an enlightened educator who is well versed in research about effective teaching. I am assuming you would class yourself as one of the 'bright' people and I clearly would be one of the idiots. Perhaps you could explain the incoherence of the programme for me as I haven't noticed it in my classroom?

By the way...the MYP wasn't 'invented' it was developed...by teachers... who were part of the International Schools Curriculum project. I expect they were idiots too?

Good old fashioned evaluation when you were in high school probably went along with good old fashioned 'discipline'. Ah, the 'good old' days...

Good luck and have a great summer when you get there!

If there are problems with a school this will come through in the administration of the programme that you teach - whatever that programme is.

I hope that both you and Mike at some point in your careers have a better experience with the PYP/MYP/School (delete as approriate) in the future. I have now worked in two very good MYP schools and have seen that it can be empowering to students and staff alike.

I don't think we are disagreeing with each other. I just happen to be teaching in an MYP school.

Samuraiwriter - I think (unless of course you were a child prodigy) that you would have been considerably older and more mature at the time of university and teacher certification. This maturity allows you to see your continued education as a means to an end. Our 11 & 12 years olds might not share that wisdom (or practicality). This is why I do think the progression from MYP to Diploma is a good one. The final exams are intense and have to be well prepared for. However, even at Diploma level assessment is still against set criteria and not against standardised 'norms' - through which you are compared with other people, as opposed to simply showing what you can actually do. The vast majority of the students that I teach do leave to go to university, are well prepared for exams, and have come through the PYP and MYP programmes.

"You just can't be a pimp and a prostitute too."...ah, clearly that would be a problem with the programme then?

Mike - of course kids have off days, as you and I do, but if they are learning there should be an upward trend as skills and knowledge become established. That is why I don't believe averaging out grades is a good way to judge student performance. It means that assessing in the early stages of acquiring new skills is a disadvantage to the students as it will bring down their grade. Fear of being assessed is surely not likely to lead to a 'fun and exciting' classroom. There is enough evidence coming from the UK at the moment on the negative impact of assessment when it is feared by students and teachers. However, when a student knows that being asssessed will give them a guide on how to get better grades next time it can have a pretty powerful impact on what is happening in your classroom.

By the way, it is a myth that the MYP is project based. The only stipulation from the IB is that work should be assessed using the subject criteria and that the curriculum should be designed to allow each subject's objectives to be achieved.

So...what were the problems?

I am not sure that I want to go where you are...based on your account. Seriously though - the MYP IS a good programme. If anything, its biggest failing is that it has put a lot of responsibilty for school based development in the hands of school administrators...who quite simply are not cut out to develop anything quite so important. The IB is beginning to realise this and so they are having to become more prescriptive. This in turn has its own disadvantages - but given the poor administration in many schools it is a necessity.

Perhaps you might want to look at how your school is delivering the MYP rather than rant at the programme itself. Criteria are all about providing the students with the information required to be succesful at the start of the task rather than simply telling them where they went wrong at the end. Sounds like good teaching practice to me. I think you will find a huge amount of educational research will support this. A-F or 1-7? It doesn't really matter as long as you are helping students to succeed rather than looking for them to fail.

My school does not lack report cards and at no point within the MYP is there a directive that these should not be used to provide feedback to parents and students. My next school - and more importantly, the school that I put my own children in WILL ONLY be an MYP school! There I feel better too...