Hi again ISR,

Here's the cliff notes of my situation/goals:

-First-year teacher, age 30, unrelated degree, completed Teach-Now a little over a month ago, got my certification in MS Math (5-9).

-Currently teaching in an NYC charter school where I also did my TN field experience. Was initially hired as a full-time sub, but as of a couple weeks ago they hired me as a teacher (5th grade).

-Recently took and passed the 7-12 math content praxis, so as soon as I take and pass the 7-12 PLT I will be certified for secondary maths.

-More or less unhappy with the current situation - would like to move into IE sooner rather than later if possible, though I am wary of not having the standard 2 years experience.

-----------

Here's the not-so-cliff-notes:

Not everything at my current school is bad. The other teachers are mostly friendly and supportive, and I've learned a lot. So why am I eager to leave?

-Student behavior is bad. The 6th grade students were actually much easier to deal with for some reason, but since they've moved me to 5th grade after getting certified I'm having problems with them. See 'MS vs. HS' for more on this below.

-Stupid hours/demands from admin. I am a little hesitant to write about this because a) I don't expect teaching to be an easy job, and b) I realize it's common for first-year teachers to struggle to some extent. Pretty much every teacher I've talked to has negative things to say about their dean/principal, everyone is always exhausted, and half of them have confided either explicitly or implicitly that they are on their way out. A lot of it is really stupid stuff too, like my dean called me out of class in the middle of a lesson I was teaching to have a meeting. The urgent thing she needed to tell me was that I needed to re-submit my lesson plans (which are always required 2 weeks in advance) because there was too much white space and they were trying to reduce the number of copies needed to be made. If it was just advice going forward, that would be fine, but I actually had to remove the white space for the plans we were already working on that week and resubmit.

Another recent example, a couple weeks ago I received an e-mail at 3:15am (on a school day) from my dean saying that instead of going to the school, she wanted me to attend a PD meeting at one of our sister schools that day. The school was in a completely different part of the city, and they expected me to respond and change my plans accordingly for *that day*. Of course, I happened to be up working on lesson plans anyway so I saw it in time, but it's just insane to me I would get something like that on such short notice.

Other than that, I'm getting paid a little over $40k/year which goes nowhere in NYC, and I have a 50 minute commute each way. Supposedly it's a nice city but I wouldn't know because I never get the chance to see it, other than the subway and my school.

-MS vs. HS: I was originally leaning towards wanting to teach HS math, but ended up getting MS math certification first because I don't have a traditional math background via university studies (basically everything after Algebra I learned through my own curiosity through Khan Academy/YouTube/other online resources). I felt I could probably teach HS math but didn't want to have any doubts about content stuff since I'd already have my hands full with other aspects of being a new teacher, so I started with MS.

After getting MS certified I was sort of hoping I'd get a grade closer to HS, but of course I had to go where they needed me. I actually didn't mind 6th grade too much, but 5th grade - in particular the 5th grade ICT class - it just feels like an age/maturity threshold where I have trouble connecting to the students, particularly in an inner-city environment.

I recently took and passed the 7-12 math praxis and it was easier than I expected, kind of wish I had just taken that in the first place. Live and learn I guess. In addition to being an age group I would be more comfortable with, I know it also gives me some more utility in IE than the 5-9 cert.

So, I'm obviously planning on finishing the current school year where I'm at. But given all the other factors, I'm trying to decide if I should try to jump into IE sooner rather than later (which I would prefer, all things being equal).

Possible options:

1) stick it out and do my 2 years here: I don't know if this counts as a full year since I was technically a sub until halfway through the year, but I don't see myself staying more than 1 additional year after this in any scenario...

2) look for other DS opportunities to finish out my standard 2 years in the US. Being in NYC maybe I could even find a place to get IB experience.

3) start looking far and wide for opportunities in IE ASAP.

I am pretty open to the vast majority of locations including most hardship regions including China. My preference would be LCSA/SEA but would consider spots in China/ME as well depending on the school.

Thoughts, advice?

intotheblue wrote:
> @idonteven
>
> Thank you very much for your response.
>
> I will take Praxis PLT towards the end of the program or after I complete
> the program.
>
> But, do you think it's better to take Praxis Core and Subject (Elementary
> Education Multiple Subjects in my case) before starting my Teach-Now
> program?

Not before starting the program, but I would try to get them out of the way early on in the program. It’s difficult to give a hard recommendation because some of this depends on your schedule and how much you need to study (I don’t know anything about the Elementary multiple subject Praxis). The first TN module also gives you some guidance wrt how to approach the Praxis exams and a suggested timeline for completing them.

I would first apply and get accepted to TN, then pick the earliest available date you feel comfortable with for completing the Praxis Core. Then worry about the Elementary subject exam, and then the PLT.


> How much workload is there for Teach Now program? I think I saw on their
> website that the workload usually requires 15 ~ 25 hr per week. Would you
> say this is accurate?

That sounds about right. I’d say most of the weeks will be around the 15 hour figure, but for some weeks depending on different variables it could be more. It also depends on how much attention you pay to the suggested reading materials in each module, which are useful but not always required for completing assignments.

> I also have a full time job at the moment, so I am wondering if it would be
> too much to start the program and study for Praxis Core/Subject all at the
> same time.

I would focus on one test at a time. Do the core, then register for the Elementary exam. Use the free guide on the ETS site to do some preliminary prep, then register for a test date and purchase their practice test (there’s only one version of the paid practice test, so I think it's better to do at least some studying before taking it. You can take the free sample test cold and use that to prep a bit for the paid version). Take the practice test and see what areas you need to work on, make a study plan and go with it.

> Even if I take Praxis Core and Subject (4 subsets) before joining the
> program, do you think I would need at least 2-3 months to prepare for them
> if I have a full time job? Again, I have no background in US history, so I
> assume I need to spend some good amount of time to study for the social
> studies part of the Elementary Education: Multiple Subjects.

I don’t know what the Elementary Praxis is like but it obviously depends on you. My guess is that if you make a reasonable study plan based on your strengths/weaknesses and are consistent, 2-3 months would be plenty even with a full-time job.

As someone who recently completed the Teach-Now program as well as the Praxis PLT (I finished the Core/Subject ones a good bit earlier), here's my two cents:

The core exam is pretty easy. That said, even though it kind of feels like a racket, I would purchase the official online practice test from ETS. Mostly because it gives you a good feel for the pacing and interface of the actual test. Even though you would probably pass anyway, think of it as peace of mind/insurance.

I treated the PLT as an afterthought, not intentionally but due to a combination of procrastination and a hectic schedule. I took it at the last minute, and even though there was a long time between registration date and test date, really only studied a couple days before, which consisted of a couple run-thrus of the practice test and a making mental notes of the questions I answered incorrectly.

Overall I was reasonably satisfied with TN, that said I think they do a mediocre job of preparing you for the PLT, which as PG said is obviously a major point of the program. When I took the PLT I found it to be a strange mix of:

a) Questions that can be answered by common sense, or common sense + a passing familiarity with education trends (TN helps with the latter)

b) Pedagogical/Instructional/Assessment questions that ranged from straightforward to pretty obscure/random (but this could be a reflection of my preparation level)

c) The case study long response questions

After I finished the test I thought I probably failed. I ended up passing with a 169 (160 is the minimum score for DC). But it was definitely stressful waiting for it to be graded and I would recommend taking more time to study and prepare for it than I did. I also may have been lucky in terms of which human being actually graded my case study answers (25% of the test).

Basically for the PLT, I would say having a general idea of the ethos of modern education and familiarity with most of the big recurring buzzwords will give you at least a decent shot at passing. The problem is "decent" isn't the adjective I'd want to be using when failure means spending hundreds of dollars more to re-take a test and delaying certification.

WinterFerret wrote:
> I like how PsyGuy brings up how this is a non-issue in most other
> professions. A talented computer programmer can accept a position, but then
> take a higher paying position elsewhere and be applauded for getting their
> market worth. (and company B would never go, oh so you were first given a
> contract by company A and then decided to work for us because we are paying
> more? Sorry we have to let you go...)

This isn't a relevant comparison. First off, if a programmer renegs on an offer they previously accepted in favor of a better opportunity, the company he/she reneged on is certainly not applauding them. Other programmers might, but that's not what we're talking about. You need to compare like with like (tech managers and IS administration). There's probably other teachers who would applaud an IT for gaming the system, but that's not what matters when it comes to the impact it has on your career.

Secondly, the supply and demand of programmers/tech companies vs. ITs/ISs is completely different. The value proposition that a top 1% teacher brings to the table is not even close to the value a top 1% programmer brings a company (by value I mean strictly in the financial sense here). A great programmer can literally be worth more than 50-100 average programmers. Obviously as a teacher I believe there are benefits to education beyond what can be measured financially, but the reality is that a teacher's intangible personal qualities aren't likely to be compensated if their effects can't be measured easily.

I don't think I've seen much on this topic here, but I'm curious how international schools view different types of domestic experience (public vs. charter vs. private), or if they make any distinction at all (speaking from US-centric point of view here). I'm going to be working at a charter school and I can see arguments for why it could be seen either more favorably or less compared to working in the public system. Or is it just "2 years is 2 years"?

What makes you think anyone else would spend 3 minutes on that? Seems like an inefficient use of time when the answer will eventually come anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2y40U2LvKY

reisgio wrote:
> Gosh, I hope most of you don't teach high school students how to conduct
> research, because you are horrible at it.
>
> This mystery is not hard to solve at all.
>
> Hint 1: She mentioned the place could be referred to something in
> Portuguese. How many Portuguese speaking countries are there?! Starting
> with the most populous in terms of people and international schools, that
> leads us to Brazil.
>
> Hint 2: What means little farm in Portuguese? Go to Google and you will
> find Rocinha, which is the name of Brazil's most famous favela (slum).
>
> Hint 3: Rocinha has been in the news in recent weeks for massive violence
> (most newspapers are referring to it as open warfare in the middle of the
> city, which is spilling over into the city's most elite neighborhoods like
> Gavea) between drug gangs (Shawanda referred to these as animals) and the
> army:
> https://theintercept.com/2017/09/25/roc ... -violence/
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... and-police
>
> http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/r ... st-favela/
>
> Hint 4: What is right across the street from one of the entrances to
> Rocinha? Escola Americana do Rio de Janeiro, the American School of Rio de
> Janeiro.
>
> Hint 5: Going to Google News and typing "Escola Americana" brings
> up multiple articles in Portuguese about how the school was shut down for
> days because of the violence in Rocinha. Tanks were right one Estrada da
> Gavea, the road EARJ is on.
>
> Shawanda, I pray you are safe and that the violence has now subsided. As
> international teachers, we all should be better informed about what our
> colleagues are facing in regions around the world. Even "great
> counties" can often see sudden or prolonged bouts of violence (anybody
> following Barcelona this weekend?).
>
> Shawanda, assuming you are safe (safety first), what do I win for getting
> it right?

Yes, I'm sure their researching skills are terribly inadequate; it couldn't possibly be that they didn't care enough to bother Googling anything.

Hopefully you will have the opportunity to regale us with your high school level researching skills in the future.

PsyGuy wrote:
> Motivator: Enhanced social life with the opposing gender.
>
> Regret: Not getting into leadership before moving into IE.

Would be curious about reasons for the regret. Do you feel moving into leadership after getting into IE is less optimal for some reason? Or you just find leadership a significantly more attractive role in IE than teaching? Or something else.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @idonteven
>
> I would send them a resume in a VERY brief email. They know you want a job,
> and youve expressed your interest and intent, and they either are trying to
> be non-confrontational or they cant do much more at this stage. What the
> resume will accomplish is it gives the principal something to send to other
> recruiters and those in leadership at other DSs and maybe that will lead to
> an appointment.
> You need to brace for the reality because your field work will be over even
> before the end of this term, you will be done right around Thanksgiving
> holiday, you will be out the door having only known these students for a
> very short period of time. Your coat and bag will be there one day and the
> next it wont, and its likely will never be seen again. Your leadership may
> be giving you the subtle indication that your time with them is absolutely
> transitional and that whatever your next stage in your DT career is, it
> will not be with their DS. Your job search starts now if you havent all
> ready. I know that sounds harsh, and is a blow to your ego, and it may not
> happen, but its an absolutely reasonable probability that your experience
> there will be 12 weeks and no more.

I got a reply from the recruiter/"talent team"/whatever saying they couldn't go through the next hiring step because I'm not certified. I know there are other non-certified teachers who have been/are teaching at the school, but they said something about being required to have a minimum number of certified teachers. So it's on to the next application it seems.

As for your other comments, sure it's not what I'd hoped to hear, but it doesn't sound that harsh. My default assumption going in was that I wouldn't be able to get a teaching job until I became certified anyway, I just thought maybe this would be a door to get in a bit sooner.

Thanks for the advice guys, and special thanks to marieh for taking the time to review my resume and give some much-needed advice.

Interesting, maybe I will wait on the feedback and send an improved resume/cover letter to the principal. I'm worried that it will be seen as a nuisance though, I imagine he's rather busy with the school year about to start.

To further complicate matters I sent him an e-mail telling him what a great experience it was meeting all the staff (which was genuine btw, everyone was pretty friendly and helpful). I straight up told him in that e-mail that I was interested in a job and asked if there are any positions he would encourage me to apply for at this juncture (long story, but the reason I phrased it this way was because the job as middle school math teacher, which is still showing up as open on job aggregators, was taken...however there were several other listings for the school, including a "teacher in residence" which seems like exactly what I will be).

He listed several openings that he would encourage me to apply for, and I did. I don't know if he actually wants to hire me or he was just being diplomatic and giving me a list of the current openings. But anyway, my point is that given he clearly knows I want to work there (and that I applied through the standard channels), would it be seen as a negative/nuisance to now send him a resume/cover letter on top of that?

Thanks a ton marieh, I sent you an e-mail from siemprevuelve(...) @ gmail.com. I replaced my real name and some other info but in retrospect maybe that's overly paranoid, lol.

I already submitted the application for this job, but if I don't get it maybe it will be useful in the future. I have to say I was disappointed to see that the resume application goes through some mysterious "talent evaluation team". I got along well with the principal and was hoping it would go to him. Now I'm afraid it simply won't pass the initial barrier with no job/no certification experience.

Maybe easily manipulated by the wrong type of admin/colleagues, students not so much I think. But you have a point.

Can I beg or bribe someone on here to take a thoughtful look at my cover letter/resume? (by bribe I mean actually pay money to) Not sure if that kind of thing is allowed on here.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @idonteven
>
> ASK NOW!!!
>
> If the principal has a vacancy and its a week before DTs are back and cant
> be any longer than a week longer before students start (and probably less)
> than your principal is looking for someone NOW. This is not some dating
> website where you drop hints, and hope that leadership asks you first if
> you would be interested. Just ask, direct email. "Hi, thank you for
> responding so quickly. I very recently saw that you were looking to fill a
> maths vacancy that is still open, would you consider me for the
> position?".

Yikes! It just feels so dubious considering:

-I have no teaching experience or even experience working with kids
-I haven't even taken the PLT portion of the Praxis (taken the rest of them though)
-Nobody from the school has met me in person or even knows what I look like (unless they did some serious digging)
-I don't even have a conventional job where I could at least point to a reference to prove I'm reliable and whatnot

It's so little to go off of from their perspective, they have almost no information about me.

That said, I will take your advice and send another e-mail and be straightforward about my interest in a job. I'm just scared that it gives the wrong impression, like I expect to just walk into a teaching job out of nowhere. But I guess as the saying goes, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Do I attach a resume or wait for him to ask?

Update:

I sent an e-mail to the principal and my mentor teacher formally introducing myself. I haven't mentioned anything about a job yet. I asked about arranging a meeting with my mentor to ask some questions (also per Teach Now requirements), the principal replied saying that the teachers will be back on Aug. 28, and invited me to attend a meeting that day where they go over the staff handbook, saying it would be a good opportunity to meet my mentor as well as the other staff members. I thanked him for the invitation and accepted of course.

So now, what is the best way to move forward? Should I just send another follow-up e-mail to the principal saying that I also happen to be interested in a job? Wait until the meeting and bring it up to him there? Attend the meeting and THEN send a follow-up e-mail saying that I'm interested in a job?

Or just apply through the "normal channels" now (recruiter posting online) and don't say anything to them?

Any general advice for the meeting besides being friendly, polite and interested? I've gone over the school's website pretty thoroughly, there's no staff handbook available online for me to view beforehand but there is a lengthy student/parent handbook pdf. I want to show clear interest but am a little afraid of going too far and coming off as a try-hard. For what it's worth, the school has somewhat of a Christian/values-oriented bent, if that affects any of the advice.

Lastly and perhaps most peculiarly...What is the appropriate attire for this sort of thing (I am a male)? Do people typically dress the same way they would during a regular school day? I was thinking just a simple white dress shirt/black dress pants/black tie, but I don't want to be out of place if people are coming in from their summer breaks more casually.

Apologies as this is actually a DE question as opposed to IE, but I value the input on this forum so hopefully people won't mind.

I am doing Teach Now and will start my field experience in August. I noticed the school I will be at has a job opening for a middle school math teacher, which is what I am becoming certified for (I've completed the Praxis Core/Content and am scheduled to take the PLT in October; field experience will finish in November).

In my total naivete of job-hunting, I'm not sure if this is

a) the most obvious opportunity in the world for me to apply for a job at a place I may have an "in" at, or

b) I should avoid applying for this job because it could create an awkward situation during the field experience if they decide not to hire me (my resume is pretty blank and I'm not certified yet, so it seems like there's a decent chance of this).

It's a public charter school (NYC), so I wouldn't technically have to be certified to begin teaching there, although they obviously know I'm on track to become certified.