Out of curiosity do any of these places offer a pension of more than a few hundred USD for a foreign teacher who arrives in their 50s and works for ~15 years?

If not, what is the allure? I could see it for a teacher who already has their financial ducks in a row and wanted to retire in relative style in western Europe. Otherwise, you could be retiring near or below the poverty line in a foreign country whose rules for pensions and healthcare slowly tighten as the demographic bomb continues to tick in these places.

I'm curious because I see these pension posts from time to time and was wondering how viable they are compared to self-financing your retirement through savings. For example, I have a modest social security pension in the US but I'll need a lot more than that to have anything near a comfortable retirement. So, being in my mid-forties I'm heading to China to build up some retirement savings. Thoughts?

I use a taxable fund at Schwab and put my savings in ETF index funds. The reality is most schools don't offer formal retirement plans (although there are exceptions) and if you claim the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (and have no other taxable income) you don't qualify to invest in IRAs in most situations.

I recently received a verbal job offer in Shenzhen and wanted to check with the community to see what my savings potential could be. I’m esstimating my after tax income including bonuses would be around $70,000. The offer includes standard benefits like housing (studio is free but I might upgrade to a 2-bedroom for ~$200 extra per month), flights, health insurance, etc. This is a solid offer for an experienced (10 years) AP teacher, yes? Not WAB good maybe, but looking over the Search database I’m not seeing very many schools where I could do better.

My primary goal right now is to save. The school is for profit, but I can tolerate that if the saving are solid. I am single and plan on eating out for dinner often (the school provides breakfast & lunch on school days) at moderately priced local places but will splurge on expat focused places maybe once or twice a week. I would also probably do 2-3 international trips per year in the region with modest, but not super frugal, budgets (think inexpensive hotels but not hostels) plus I would do the occasional trip to HK. I also would not be getting a car in Shenzhen and would bike/walk/use public transport mostly with the occasional taxi when the other modes are inconvenient. I would get a maid to clean weekly as well too.

Given all that do you think savings of $35-40k are feasible? Thanks for any advice!

I've had one interview already for 20-21. They said they are still firming up openings, but want to have a follow-up interview in September. It's for a secondary math position in Shenzhen, China...not a tier 1 school but the salary ($60-70k+), housing, and benefits are solid enough to catch my notice.

I'm not in Hong Kong but am curious as well. I do know that HKIS has posted a large number of openings for 2020 on the Search Database. Right now I see 10 positions posted which seems like a big number for a Tier 1 school this early in the recruiting cycle. Maybe it means nothing, but I wonder if the disruptions are enough to make some teachers to pull up stakes.

I'm tempted to apply since it seems like a great school overall, but the religious aspects of the school in combination with the unrest in HK give me pause.

@Sid

I'm curious. How do people prove what they have done 10+ years ago in an international setting? Lots of teachers have bummed around the world doing odd jobs, tutoring, or just traveled before they got serious about their career. How do prove something like that when everyone related has moved on? I doubt a random travel buddy can just vouch for you.

I get the need for child protection, but why is a clean criminal background check not sufficient? Also, where does this end? I'm going on vacation to the Philippines in a few weeks. Am I going to need to document every vacation I ever take complete with proof that I was not up to something nefarious?

I teach primarily HS Math and am slated to teach AP Econ next year. I've also had to take over in the middle of year at a previous school when another teacher, who taught mostly history and did not have an econ background, was hopelessly floundering in covering AP Econ material. A lot of social studies teachers, unless business is their area of focus, struggle with teaching econ/business courses.

Illiane_Blues wrote:
> Walter wrote:
> > It's the law. In the UK, employment agencies are not allowed to charge
> > job-seekers. In situations like this, SEARCH bills the schools a higher fee
> > to compensate the SEARCH Associate.
>
> Do you know if that would influence a school's decision to hire someone?
> When it's between two equally impressive candidates, one of which is registered with
> a UK associate.

To me, the $225 registration fee would be a trivial additional cost on a 2+ year hire compared to the expense of the overall compensation package of a teacher. Any school that pinches pennies so hard that this would be a deciding factor would be one to avoid anyway in my opinion.

Why even lie? What’s the point? To get a tour and potentially eliminate that school as an employer? I think most of us knows what the inside of a school looks like at this point.

Personally, I would do a bit of research and see what teaching approach/philosophy the school uses. Then contact admin and say I would like to do an observation as a professional development experience to learn more about whatever methodology. They might say no, but if they say yes I would follow through with the observation, maybe do an interview or two, make nice with everyone, and maybe actually learn something while making professional contacts.

But that’s just me. You could just do the whole trench coat with sunglasses super secret spy approach if it amuses you. Good luck on that advancing you professionally though!

Edit to add: Also don’t forget the fake mustache! That’s what really pulls it all together!

Another vote for Schwab. Very expat friendly and I also use them for their brokerage account. Also, don’t play games with foreign accounts and follow all the rules. Due to FATCA most every reputable foreign bank and investment firm hand over all account information of Americans to the US government these days. If you want to know more on FATCA here’s a fairly amusing satire that covers the main points: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-EVF7CZt_w

Since you are certified and experienced you can most likely do better than this. My advice is to keep searching.

While you can pay into social security by claiming self employed income, since you have to pay both employer and employee amount it generally is a pretty terrible investment. Just about the only reason I see to do it is if you are a few quarters short of the 40 you need to qualify, and even then I would only put in the bare minimum.

Broadly speaking most don't save that much, but it is possible. I'm currently saving that much as a mid-career single with no dependents. Right now I am saving roughly 50% of my income and living comfortably, but with only around two international trips per year (one vacation and one back home).

@PsyGuy

I make $48K net in a low cost of living country and am a single guy. Living on $24K where I am is quite comfortable when you don't have to pay rent. I could probably even push it to saving $30K per year, but I like eating out regularly, having a maid, and taking the occasional trip.

One key difference between me and some of my colleagues is that I don't go on luxurious trips to fantasy destinations with every chance I get. I do about 2 international trips a year mixed with some local travel and that's about it. I am budget conscious even on those trips too though.

When I was younger I used to fritter everything away, but now that I am in my mid-40's I have been serious about saving for the past few years. The main goal is to be financially independent by my early sixties. The international job market can be pretty rough past 60 and I want to be financially squared away by then. I'm ok with scaling back on travel to make that happen.

In addition to the bogleheads I recommend checking out the Money Mustache community. Both are non-expat specific (although expats do participate in both), but offer some great advice for saving and investing.

As for myself, I have a modest social security pension and 401K from my work back home. I also have a condo back home I am currently renting out, but am only really breaking even on. That's not going to cut it, so I am putting about $2K per month into a taxable account at Schwab. I used to be with Vanguard, but they are not expat friendly, and Schwab has expats as an area of focus. Since the funds are nearly identical between the two the switch made sense to me.

Right now I'm putting it all into a broad market ETF (SCHB), but am considering putting 10% into a bond ETF as well. In general, I think passive investment strategies are a great way to invest for the average person, and particularly for expats who are often detached from the day to day reality back home.