Hi all,

I hope this topic won't be considered as "evaluative-type information" but I'd like to compile a list of international schools who pay into American Social Security. Many of us from the USA have worked mostly outside the US and need to accumulate 40 quarter to be vested in SS and Medicare. Here are some schools that either currently pay into USA Social Security or did in the past (so might be dated). Please feel free to add to the list if you know of other schools who pay into American Social Security or know that one of the schools below stopped paying into the program.

1. Taipei American School, Taipei, Taiwan

2. American Nicaraguan School, Managua, Nicaragua

3. International School of Kenya, Nairobi, Kenya

4. Istanbul International Community School, Istanbul, Turkey

5. International College of Beirut, Beirut, Lebanon

6. American Overseas School of Rome, Rome, Italy

7. American Community School, Beirut, Lebanon

I'm not an apologist for ISR, however, I imagine that they invest a good part of their membership fees for legal advice and fending off frivolous lawsuits from certain Directors and international schools.

A few years ago on a message board for international school Directors there was a direct discussion between Directors on how to sabotage this (ISR) website. This was a discussion with many internationally-recognized Directors from Tier 1 and 2 schools that many here know or would at least recognize their names as "leaders" in our field. It was appalling to read how threatened this group of Directors was of ISR. Only 1 Director there had the guts to call out the rest of the group by pointing out they, as a group, were being hypocrites for not wanting teachers to stay informed about international schools and Administrators, while Directors routinely communicated about teachers. Thus, this is what ISR is up against and I'm sure they've been challenged legally.

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing. Goes to show you that there is more than one road to get to a Tier 1. Also, more evidence that the work expectations at most Tier 1s are usually much higher, and to some people a more quality school with better benefits isn't worth it (although I disagree).

There are a few schools in Europe that are located in suburbs outside the major capital. The best I know of is located in a nice village where it is as small-town and slow-paced as you can get but you're still only 30 minutes from the capital. It's practically surrounded by beautiful forests, the air is fresh, and in the winter it's breath-taking. We're not supposed to name schools but if you want to know where I'm talking about, Arthur Phillips' first novel is the setting (although the title is not the setting).

Yes, I agree that the lifestyle in Latin America has a lot of advantages. Here are some from my perspective:

- Most Latinos are full of life, kind, and anything but boring.
- The weather (there are some exceptions in the high altitude areas) is usually pleasing if you like a warmer climate.
- If you are single, both males and females can more easily date/make friends outside the "gringo bubble" of the international school environment.
- Spanish/Portuguese are easier for English-speakers to learn (for most).
- It''s a bit closer to home for North Americans (and in a similar time zone), which is pretty convenient if you have to get home quick.
- These schools tend to have lower work expectations for teachers. I was amazed when people would show 2 minutes before the first bell and then walk out with the students (with Admin. right behind them!). So the work/life balance is much better if you want to put in the minimum.

Some disadvantages:

- Schools, in general, pay much less than Asia, Middle East, and some in Africa and Europe.
- You have MAYBE 10 (liberally) decent schools in all of Latin America if you want a good lifestyle, savings opportunities, and a halfway functioning school (although I am amazed at what some really good teachers settle for just because they are desperate to work internationally.).
- Administration tends to be lower standard than other parts of the world.
- High percentage of schools have a local student dominant population with alumni parents.
- As a teacher you are not treated with the same amount of respect as you would at Tier 1 school in other parts of the world. Admin. (and local parents) attitude is, "Hey, if you don't like it here (or don't want to do what I want without backtalk), maybe you're not a good fit here. There are 50 more teachers who will take your place." Basically, they want you to shut up and do your job. BUT if you can do that with a smile, it's cake.
- Resistant to change. Even if the school has programs that are obsolete, don't make sense or aren't in the best interest of student learning, good luck trying to cull or even reform. Admin will justify by calling it a "cherished tradition" of the school and long-time parents and local hires will label you "culturally insensitive."
- Disconnection and bad communication school-wide: Human Resources tend to be unorganized and inefficient, Business office will make unilateral decisions about important things effecting pay and benefits but not communicate with teachers, one level of the school will have an important event but not inform the other levels, etc. etc.

Overall, I think working in Latin America should not be missed, however, it's much better to have your Latin American experience really early in your career or as a last posting where money is not an issue. The teachers who struggle the most in LA schools, from my experience, are teachers who have worked at Tier 1s in places like Asia or Europe and are used to well-functioning schools with supportive Admin (who are not top-down), supportive Human Resources and Business Depts., parents who let you do your job, and colleagues who are more professional.

Dredge has pretty much nailed it from my experience in South American schools. The students, while a bit lazy, pampered, and entitled, actually weren't the worst thing about working in that part of the world. It was the parents who could be absolutely dreadful- Big fish in a small pond who like to throw their weight around. My worst experience was in a school where it seemed like most of the parents were alumni and would just hang around school all day, gossiping about teachers who didn't treat their "little darlings" right. It was awful. You could count on Administration taking the parents side 95% of the time.

Too-high proportion of local students is a no-go for me. I, personally, work best with a truly balanced population of students from multiple countries as opposed to a dominant population of local students (where the local parents tend to run the place).

I disagree with Worldtrvlr123 on his/her current take on Indonesia. The better schools in Indonesia (JIS, NJIS, etc.) aren't having any trouble recruiting according to my sources. I know of several well-qualified colleagues and ex-colleagues, for example, who interviewed with JIS in the last few months and weren't offered the job; all would have accepted if offered.

Getting back to your main question, without 2 years experience and with a less-in-demand credential, your opportunities will be much more limited, regardless of what your friends say.

Yes, I find that the "savings potential" is often not accurate since it depends on so many variables. Many schools don't bother to update their information for years (after weakening currency, changes in benefits, cost of living increases, etc. etc.), and remember that these sheets are filled out by an upper level administrator (or their secretary who might ask them, "How much can an average person save?" before picking a number quickly out of their head).

And those upper-level administrators can be completely out of touch both ways- being too optimistic or even pessimistic (obviously they have an interest in making their school as competitive as possible, so more are of the optimistic guesses from my experiences). Take it as a ballpark figure at first from the database. However, it is important (if it matters to you like it does most educators), to ask for contact info. for a few teachers at the school to ask about savings potential (before you sign a contract). Chances are the the average opinion of those "in the trenches" teachers will be much more accurate. Also, join an expat website or 2 for that destination to ask about things like cost of living.

P.S.- the good schools will take a survey from current teachers to update this figure yearly. I worked at two such schools (both solid Tier 1s), however, most won't bother.

I agree with Sid. Bite the bullet and stay a couple of more years at your current school to make your husband more marketable.

This is, indeed, a tough call. However, (and I know you probably don't want to hear this) I agree with Wrldtrvlr123, Clio, and Shad on this. Your word is important and that is why it is crucial to only accept a job if you are prepared 100% to commit to it. All of us take the chance on another "better" job popping up after committing to another. If you jilt the first school, and they decide to contact the school you end up going to (assuming they are able to discover where you went), the second school could pull their offer (not saying they will, but they could). If I were you, I'd honor the first job for the length of the initial contract, chalk it up to a learning experience, and go all in on a European job next time. There are certain career international educators who never rise above Tier 2 and 3 schools and while a lot of them brag that they are "fine" with it (or list a variety of excuses), it's stunts like this that can derail the move to consistent employment in Tier 1s.

Just saw your latest response- If you do eventually get the offer from the dream school, just a simple "I accepted an offer from another school. Thank you for your interest" would suffice. Personally, if I were you, and you decide that you will go the first school, I'd immediately contact the dream school to take yourself out of consideration. No use wasting their time and they'll respect you more (and perhaps consider you again in the future).

You don't have to leave, MaryAnne. Don't let him run you off the forum. PsyGuy tries to drown out other opinions by always trying to get the last word and claiming superior knowledge about virtually every topic. Do what I did and place PsyGuy on your ignore list.

You can do this by clicking your "User Control Panel" - going to the "Friends and Foes" tab - Manage Foes - and then typing in his username. You won't see any of his posts from then forward, which instantly improves the forum for those who have grown weary of his act. It's pretty clear that Ben and the other owners of this website are going to tolerate him so this is your best move for him or any other serial troll in the future.

Trolls like PsyGuy are typically very different from their online personas (which are usually full of bravado, cockiness, claims of superior knowledge, etc.) and I would love to meet him face-to-face just to see the contrast.

I must be nuts to attempt to have a civil and factual exchange with you, PsyGuy. lol I've done my research on this and can say with confidence that I know more about this case than most people (including you by the hurtful rubbish you are posting here). You've brought up multiple claims that are 100% incorrect, but I really don't have the time or energy to refute every one of your points. You'll just spin the facts the way you always do in an apparent effort to impress yourself (that's what you do for fun). So I'll just do the sensible thing and put you on my ignore list as most knowledgeable and experienced international educators apparently do. OzGrad nailed it earlier in this thread.

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to know the facts about the case visit: http://freeneilandferdi.org/

Walter is absolutely correct. Neal's and Ferdi's original convictions were overturned to due insufficient evidence, full stop. Not sure where PsyGuy heard that the convictions were "overt turned (sic) on a very, very minor technicality, there was never any finding of egregious error by the court." Please provide the source for this, Psyguy, to back up your claim.

This is better than a chess match. I think Psyguy has met his match. lol