PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> Yes, you did, you have stated multiple times "you only need a contract
> and its that simple". Its not that simple you need a visa and in
> Germany (amongst the rest of the EUR) those with contracts do have visas
> denied.

American: I want to work in Germany.
Germany: The school doesn't have to sponsor your visa. Any employer with any job (sufficient hours/pay/insurance) will do.
School: You don't have the right degree for us to sponsor you
PsyGuy: Everyone needs visas and sometimes people get denied!

Okay, sure, people get denied for things like lying on applications, criminal history, etc. It does happen. But we aren't talking about unusual cases here.

(Also, EU is European Union. EUR is Euro, the currency used in much of Europe. But sure, you know what you're talking about.)


>
> No, Bavaria really isnt different. Your perception that Bavaria is
> different, is different. I wouldnt take your word for anything, more so
> that you dont seem to know how words work.


We've established that each Bundesland is different, so yeah, it's different. However, most Bundesländer do have an Anerkennung. Bavaria does not (again, there are complicated workarounds, but as a straightforward procedure, they do not). Bavaria is notorious for this in so many areas. Everyone in Germany knows this.

>
> No, its because they are different. Though I would concede based on prior
> claims your experience with dead horses would be greater than mine. Ive
> been stating for quite sometime that the processes are different, but thats
> your tendency to plagiarize.


Me: The process is different--not just the IS walking it through.
PG: "No, its [sic] because they are different." Add intent to insult and accusation of plagiarism for stating what I have said from the beginning.
Gaslighting is wonderful.

>
> No, its not. Again though your simply daft to the realities. Germany isnt
> special every country has their own language terms for various ISs and DSs.
>

In Germany we use Ersatzschulen and Ergänzungsschulen. Both are "Schulen in freier Trägerschaft" (private schools). However, Ersatzschulen receive federal funding and have to follow ministry standards. They offer recognised German Abschlüsse (Abi, MSA). Therefore I called them semi-private because that's the closest English approximation that doesn't get into the complicated nuance. But NOBODY uses "Trust IS" here in Germany, and I have not really heard it used commonly elsewhere.


> Happy to hear you agree, it makes for less typing.

PsyGuy pretending not to understand how sarcasm works. The gaslighting is next level.


> ISs can suddenly change anything. Yes, they could exactly do that. No an IS
> may require an IT to have a native language competency an English language
> competency or a combination of the two, and ISs do make exceptions.

Yes, let's go down some hypothetical where a teacher convinces an entire school to suddenly start demanding its parents communicate in English, its materials be replaced to switch languages, its internal communications be changed to accommodate one teacher when everyone in Germany speaks English and the German speaker currently teaching maths could presumably teach it in English or a bilingual teacher could be found. I mean, sure, it could happen. We're already in the twilight zone, so why not?

>
> Happy to hear you agree.


PG: Applicants must meet the requirements
TP: Some schools can flex on their own requirements
PG: You agree with me.

Again, next level gaslighting.

>
> No, it doesnt. This is the seminal non-sense of your TPF wonderland.
> Neither ISs nor DSs nor the German MOE set immigration policy in regards to
> obtaining a visa. No an IS canot hire anyone they want.

The policy for immigration says that for Americans, if you have a job offer, the company has decided you are qualified for the position and therefore can be approved for a visa. Since Ergänzungsschulen function in this regard as private companies, they can hire a high school graduate to teach IB Physics if they want. They set the standard. Now, for other countries it's different, but for Americans and a few others this is the case.


> No, Organizations, do not get to set there own immigration policy. This is
> just more TPF non-sense.

Never said they set their own policy. The policy is pretty flexible for certain nationalities, though--including Americans.

>
> Thats not true they could be a Candidate IB IS and offer DIP.
>

Oy. A candidate school does not yet offer the DP (not DIP). But the OP has already stated that they offer the IBDP as well as MYP and PYP, and the only schools on the IBO site that offer all three in Bavaria are all Ergänzungsschulen.

> No, an IS can ot hire anyone they want. Your all you need is a a contract
> is TPF non-sense. Applicants with contracts are denied visas.

Not Americans--unless there is some other reason for denial related to background checks, for example. But in general, no, they aren't. The visas are often issued upon arrival, making German schools skew heavily in favour of EU or favoured nationalities.

>
> Happy to hear you agree with my original post that Germany is rather rigid
> on degrees and credentials dont have a lot of value.

That isn't what I said. You also need a credential. You need both for Anerkennung, so they do have value. You need neither (I mean, you probably do, but not officially) for an Ergänzungsschule. Something I have said all along.

>
> Yes, do see my posts above, but this is hindered by your lack of reading
> fluency and comprehension.

Next. Level.

>
> The visa requirements are more than having a contract.
>

Yes, they include having health insurance (included in contract) and sufficient income (included in contract).

> Its possible they could do this all the time, but you wouldnt know. Then
> again youre probably confusing a Magic 8 Ball with a Crystal Ball.
> My own counsel will I keep on what I would write. It could be true, but
> they have been rather responsiveness on more than the initial explanation
> on the reason, rational, and explanation. Its a superfluous amount of
> effort for a fabrication.


There is irony here. The school actually would walk you through the visa process (no separate procedure), but they don't get you a visa based on your degree. They get you one based on having a contract. Since we have established that this is almost certainly an Ergänzungsschule, we know they could give a contract (again, there are potential sticky widgets with things like percentages that might not affect you personally, but to which you fall victim), which is sufficient for the visa. So there is either a complex factor at play that isn't about any given individual or the school is lying.

>
> Because the "you just need a contract" is TPF non-sense. There
> are a greater degree of requirements for hiring a foreign IT through an OS
> embassy/consulate than there are for a floor cleaner.

Not necessarily. I have known of people who did not have a credential who were teaching at an Ergänzungsschule. Some were in the process of getting credentialed, others were not. They were employed as full teachers, some with permanent contracts, and had visas and even permanent residency. Again, for an Ergänzungsschule you are essentially a company hire; your degree is of little importance to the visa process.

This isn't complex. I have also provided evidence for my claims. It just bothers you that I might know more about some subjects than you do, and regardless of what the subject is, you will gaslight because you really have a thing against me. Sorry you are so insecure, but at least this is entertaining.

Alchemeister wrote:
> @thames pirate
>
> Sorry, they do offer a diploma program too. So goes until 12th. My mistake.
> Also, it’s not Phorms. Yes, in Bavaria.
>
> My guess is they are missing something on their end. Or they’re being told
> wrong info by their visa department people.

Then it is an Ergänzungsschule. There may be super detailed requirements for their overall approval (certain percentage of staff meets X requirement) or they might not have appointments available (because the process can take awhile, schools often make a number of appointments well in advance, but they might not have any left) or they are being dishonest. This wouldn't be their first rodeo, so they are not being told wrong info by visa people; they will know whom they can hire.

PsyGuy wrote:

> Yes more blah, blah and youre wrong.

Ha, so original!
>
> More non-sense TPF. Its not that simple, putting words together is simple,
> going to the moon is simple, all you have to do is go through space.
>
> Yes they are related. You need a visa if you dont have a right to
> residency, you have to live there to work there. Its a concept of proximity
> that I know your lack of vocabulary struggles with.

Yes, you need a visa to work in Germany as an American. I never said otherwise. I said that as an American you could show up, then find a job and a place to rent (in either order), then go to the Amt and get the visa.

>
> Bavaria is not super tricky any more than the rest of Germany is. @Thames
> Pirate may find Bavaria more difficult but thats just @Thames Pirate.

No, Bavaria really is different. It's the outlier in pretty much all respects in Germany. But don't take my word for it; use the official documents or play around in the portal. Post your own evidence. But hey, you'd rather just claim I am wrong.

>
> Yes, walking an application through the process is different than doing it
> yourself, happy to hear you agree with me, finally.

Meh, beating a dead horse to try and explain that there are different processes--as in, different requirements--not just the school taking your application to the Amt for you. But if you are unable to comprehend that, that's okay. I don't need you to believe or understand that. You can keep claiming you know all about it and that I am right or wrong or agreeing with what you said or whatever. I know what I am talking about.

>
> Yes there are two types of edus, ISs and DSs, ISs are independent/private,
> and DSs are maintained/public. In between there are trust ISs/DSs that are
> a hybrid of the two.
>

No. International schools can be Ersatzschulen (Phorms) or Ergänzungsschulen (MIS, BIS). Ersatzschulen are not a hybrid; they are their own category. This "trust" nonsense is completely made up.

> No, not different.

Okay, sure--no difference at all between a school can hire anyone and one that must hire according to German ministry. No difference at all between a school can set its own graduation requirements and one that must administer German standardised exams. No difference at all between a school that can choose which units they teach or how many lessons of each subject a student takes and one where these things are prescribed. No difference at all between a school that get thousands of Euros per student in automatic funding and schools that must get that money from families or elsewhere.


> Yes you would need to sell the IS on immersion if you were teaching in an
> IS that delivered its curriculum in German but had an exception for ESOL
> and would be willing to appoint an IT who only spoke English. It would
> still be a hassle for the IS.

If it's an international school it has a concept of which classes are taught in which language. It isn't going to suddenly decide that kids who speak English because they have science in English should have maths in English because you convinced them of the merits of immersion. Either the school requires the teacher to speak German or it doesn't. And it has absolutely zero bearing on Anerkennung as you initially implied.



> Applicants must meet the requirements of the position the IS/DS has
> established whether they are their own policies or mandated by rule or
> regulation.


Sure, and that includes language. The difference is that an Ergänzungsschule can relax its own hiring requirements because they set them themselves.

>
> No they are using visa correctly. They nee to get the LW a visa.

If the school gives the OP a contract, they can get them a visa. However, an Ersatzschule won't give a contract to a teacher who will not be approved because then they could get stuck paying someone who can't actually teach the classes. An Ergänzungsschule can hire anyone they want from the US (and other specific countries) and get them a visa.

>
> No, Organizations, do not get to set there own immigration policy. This is
> just more TPF non-sense.

It isn't that they are setting policy. It's that the policy is pretty chill regarding Americans.

>
> It could be a Candidate IS/DS and not listed on the IB website yet.
>

That's true, but then it should still have the Abi or MSA listed as this is a requirement from the get go for an Ersatzschule.

>
> @Alchemeister
>
> Yes, its a thing.
>
> If you dont have a right of residency you will need a visa and you must
> meet the visa department for the the applicable ministry (Labor,
> Immigration, etc.). This is separate process from what an MOE requires for
> a credential. This is how it works everywhere, Germany or otherwise.
>

True, but as I said, if it is an Ergänzungsschule, they can simply give you a contract, which gets you the visa--in which case they are less than honest. If they are an Ersatzschule, then they can't have you teach, so they won't give you a contract--regardless of your visa status. If you were married to a German and had a permanent visa, they still wouldn't hire you if you can't get Anerkennung.

> As I wrote previously, Germany has rather rigid requirements what in comes
> to subject adjacent degrees. Germany goes by what is inscribed on the
> degree/qualification scroll. As I wrote previously, foreign credentials
> arent as valuable in Germany. Like most of the IE world outside of the US.
> Credentials generally fill the requirement of pro.edu training and
> competency, and tend to be generic rather than subject specific. In
> general, applicants need to meet the pro.edu requirement, which a
> credential does, regardless of its subject matter (though age range may be
> an issue) and then need to meet subject matter competence, which is often
> accomplished by possession of a specific qualification or range of
> qualifications. Germany has a very limited range of qualifications per
> subject area.
> Credentials with specific subject areas generally dont meet the
> requirements in demonstrating single subject competence. So a credential in
> maths is no more qualifying to teach match than a credential in social
> studies, economics, or, physics is. An IT with a degree qualification in
> math and a credential in business is far more acceptable for a maths
> appointment were it the inverse (a maths appointment with a credential in
> maths, and a degree qualification in business).
>
> Per your example, a business degree usually would not be accepted to meet
> the requirements of a a maths appointment. A degree inscribed in the
> subject of " Business -" for example may be acceptable. But if
> all the degree is inscribed with includes such subject titles as:
> "Business Administration", "General Business",
> "Business", or "Business.. Management/Marketing/Human
> Resources/Supply Chain Management, etc." than its not. Even highly
> maths adjacent fields such as "Economics" are likely to be denied
> (though its happened before).


A long winded way of saying what I have twice said already. ;)


> This is just more TPF nonsense. Getting you the visa is the primary issue.
> The issue of credentials and what pathways are available for mutual
> recognition of credentials is not very relevant at this stage. If its an IS
> (independent/private) then they dont really have to contend with the mutual
> recognition process (though they may choose to), but they still have to get
> you a visa and meet the requirements for that ministry. If its a DS or a
> Trust IS and they do have to be successful in the mutual recognition
> process, than FIRST issue is still being able to get you a visa by meeting
> those requirements and then SECOND to that is investigating the mutual
> recognition pathways.

See my explanations above.

>
> The German terms for IS/DS, etc, all vary by nation and region, Germany
> isnt any different. Youre going down the rabbit hole into @Thames Pirate
> wonderland of TPF non-sense. Of course you need to meet visa requirements,
> if you dont have a right to residency. They are more important than mutual
> recognition of credentials and are the priority everywhere. Germany is no
> different from China, India, France, Italy, UK, AUS, CAN, US, JP, SG, TW,
> HK, the NE or EE, etc. The primary issue is can the IS/DS get you a visa.
> Whether its a State Department, a Foreign Office, or Ministry of
> Immigration/Labor, the MOE doesnt make immigration/visa decisions, thats
> bunk. In TPF wonderland those OS ministries/offices/departments would all
> be subservient to organizations and business because in TPF wonderland
> "all you need is a contract". No national immigration/labor
> policy, regulations, statutes, rules, procedures, standards, oversight,
> even purview would matter because "all you need is a contract".
> Its bunk TPF non-sense. Organizations and businesses dont dictate
> immigration or labor policy.

The visa requirement is to have a job (again, for the OP, who is American). From the Auswärtiges Amt: "Sie können als Fachkraft einen Aufenthaltstitel zur Beschäftigung erhalten, wenn Sie bereits ein konkretes Arbeitsplatzangebot erhalten haben." You can obtain a residence permit for work if you have a firm job offer.

>
> While its very possible they could be lying to you, why would they? They
> arent going to be working with you, they dont have a need to save face,
> they could much more easily say "we are exploring other
> candidates" or "have moved forward with other candidates".
> Why pass on and pass it off as a visa issue, they owe you nothing?

Schools do this all the time, and in any other thread you would be the first to say that it is code for "we don't want you." But I said it, so you have to disagree.

I don't know if they are directly lying; there could be other factors at work (Ergänzungsschulen can hire anyone for any given position, but their approval might have contingencies such as certain percentage EU hires, certain numbers of staff must meet certain requirements). But they could hire you to clean floors and you'd get a visa. So they aren't being 100% straightforward, but they may be giving you the simple answer (again, Ergänzungsschulen could have weird percentages and Ersatzschulen would require Anerkennung).


>
> In Germany the Ministry responsible would be the Federal Foreign Office,
> but they largely delegate the OS process to their embassies and consulates.
> So find out what embassy/consulate service the region you would be applying
> from and send them an email or call them and ask what would be required to
> secure a skilled workers visa as a grade/subject matter edu.

Not for Americans! You can apply for the visa upon arrival (again, the challenge since Covid has been the processing times that might take you past the 90 days). But if you call to ask about a visa, they will refer you to the Anerkennung process of the relevant Bundesland, but as an individual.

>
> Options:
>
> THE GOOD
>
> Relocate to Germany now. Its not all you need is a contract, but by being
> local youd be applying directly to the local ministry office for your visa
> which may have a much easier time if an IS is walking your application
> through the process than through an OS embassy/consulate. In addition youre
> already there and a much more viable candidate. The big fear a leader/IS
> has with a new OS hire is they wont get on the plane.
> As an alternative, an IS may be more amendable to getting your visa changed
> under an appointment you would be qualified for and just assigning you to
> maths.

You can get a job cleaning floors while going through the Anerkennung, for which you would need German and the right subject degrees (sounds like you don't have that). No school is going to walk you through this process. You are on your own.

You can also offer to teach the subject for which your degree qualifies you if you feel comfortable doing that. You might need a subject endorsement added to your US license, but that should be the smaller hurdle. Of course, that is assuming the school has an opening for that subject and wants someone with no experience teaching it. But if they will take you for your degree subject, great! Then it won't matter if it's an Ersatz- or Ergänzungsschule.


>
> THE BAD
>
> You could add a credential in whatever your degree qualification is in and
> pursue appointments in that field.


See above.

>
> THE UGLY
>
> You could do a second major/degree in maths. Its July you could be done by
> this time 2025, with degree in hand if you went full time and only needed
> 30-36 hr. credits. You could potentially get CLEP credit for College Maths,
> Algebra, Pre-Calculus , and Calculus through testing alone, thats 12 hrs,
> spread the rest out over 2 semesters, maybe a summer semester and thats a
> very doable work load, assuming you know what youre doing and your courses
> are the skill-drill type where you just have to do proof sets and exams, of
> which the vast majority of UG/1stD online programs are. It wouldnt help you
> now but next year would be very doable.
> SNHU has an online degree in maths, they also have their own assessment
> program (up to 12 credits), you transfer in your current Bachelors/1st
> degree (90 credits), pass all the credit exams leaving you with 18 credits
> (6 courses) would be just under USD$6K.

Also an option.

I should add that PYP and MYP means the school only goes to 10th grade? And are you absolutely sure they don't offer German qualifications as well?

If it's a school like BIS or MIS in Munich, they are not being honest; those are Ergänzungsschulen and can hire anyone to teach anything (and they have). If it's a school like Phorms, you might have overlooked their MSA and Abi mentions; it is an Ersatzschule, in which case they are telling the truth.

I will say that according to the IBO website:

Every school in Germany that officially offers the PYP and the MYP also offers the DP (except Stuttgart, but you said Bavaria). All of the Bavarian ones listed are Ergänzungsschulen.

There are the SIS and Phorms schools that are Ersatzschulen.

I found one Ersatzschule in Bavaria offering the DP (and not the MYP or PYP) and one offering the PYP (it was only an elementary school, so no MYP or DP).

My guess is you missed something on the website.

I can understand why you don't want to name the school, but I am not sure they are being honest if this is the case.

Well, sort of.

So the "getting the visa" part really means "employing you to teach X." They could give you a job cleaning floors and you'd get a visa. But if you had an EU passport and didn't need a visa, they still couldn't have you teach X. So telling you it's about the visa is a bit dishonest, but far simpler.

It IS true (for an Ersatzschule) that you need a degree in what you are teaching. See my post above (the example about Psychology and English)--if you are teaching maths, you need some sort of maths degree. What your teaching license says has absolutely zero bearing on what subjects you are allowed to teach. I know someone whose entire career was teaching one thing, and the ministry approved them only to teach a completely different subject they had never taught because of what their undergraduate degree was. As it turned out, the school had an opening in that for the coming school year, so they moved the person over. It was a huge learning curve and the teacher did struggle along for a few year or two before deciding to move on.

It sounds like the school is using "visa" in place of the more complex explanation. A bit misleading, but understandable that they wouldn't want to go into the explanation about the ministry and Ersatzschulen and all that if you aren't coming anyway. And of course it may always be an excuse, though if they bothered with getting and looking at your documents, it probably wasn't. My gut is that this is an Ersatzschule, they liked you, and your documents didn't match what the ministry said, and it was my suspicion from your first post (see all my previous posts all the way back).

If this is an Ergänzungsschule, they are lying to you 100% because they are the ones allowed to choose what qualifies you.

You can easily check which type of school this was by seeing what types of degrees they offer. If they offer Abi or MSA (also known by other names such as Mittlere Reife), they are an Ersatzschule (this doesn't preclude them from offering IB). If they offer ONLY the IB or AP or A Levels or other non-German qualification, they are an Ergänzungsschule.

Bla bla wrong.

I realise a tourist visa is not a work visa. But Americans can enter on a tourist visa and stay for up to 90 days. If they find a job during that time, they can get a work visa. Obviously finding the job is tricky, but it really is that simple (I mean, the paperwork is always a pain, and getting the appointment at the Amt for the visa can take you past your 90 days, but it can be that simple). Here it is laid out: https://www.welcome-hub-germany.com/blo ... or-germany

And no, they are not related. You don't need an Anerkennung to work in Germany; you need one to work in public schools or Ersatzschulen. An Anerkennung will also not help you get a visa--a job does that (for Americans, anyway). So you can work as a teacher in Germany without the Anerkennung and you can get a work visa without it. The two things are completely unrelated.

Again, Bavaria is super tricky for anyone not licensed in the EU, EEA (EWR), or Switzerland. A straight Anerkennung for anyone else--including the OP--is not possible. Workarounds are required, and these are really not worth it in most cases. But schools may have a process that serves as a workaround (Phorms Munich, for example, has a process with the KMK according to their website). This isn't walking an application through the normal channels. It doesn't involve things like your marriage certificate or language certificates, but it does involve submitting lesson plans and being observed--again, a TOTALLY DIFFERENT process. And again, Anerkennung is not solely about the subject degrees. If you have a BA in Psychology and an M.Ed., you can teach in the subjects for which Psychology qualifies you (depending on the Bundesland it could be any social studies courses or only psychology related courses), but not English--even if you have years of experience and a teaching license with an endorsement for English. So your Anerkennung could go through for certain subjects, but not for the ones to which you are applying. That's what it sounds like happened here.

If you haven't figured it out yet, there are two types of private schools in Germany. Ersatzschulen are essentially semi-private; they are strictly regulated by the state and have to follow all the same standards as the state schools and rules regarding access to education (they must offer scholarships, for example). In return, they are funded almost at the same rate as public schools. There are a very few international schools that fall into this category (by far the most well known is Phorms in Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg, and a few others). These schools can and even must offer German exams such as the MSA or Abi (depending on the school's level).

Ergänzungsschulen are fully private and must negotiate for any local or state funding. They generally have to be niche to receive approval. Approval is necessary because Germany has a Schulpflicht (mandatory school attendance--homeschooling is not allowed), and these niche schools must be approved for attendance to meet this legal requirement. But because they are niche and meeting a highly specific and often unusual need, they are freed from a lot of the regulation. These might include sports academies for high level student athletes, for example. International schools are obviously a niche market as well. Most international schools fall into this category. Being freed from regulation (obviously within certain parameters--child safeguarding standards, data protection, and other safety protocols still apply) means the school can decide whom it hires for what teaching roles and could, if so inclined, put someone without a teaching license into a teaching role. They can set their own calendars and curriculums and budgets and tuition fees. Most international schools in Germany are also accredited through organisations such as CIS, so they would be subject to those requirements, but not any state requirements. However, they cannot issue an Abitur or an MSA--only equivalents such as the IBDP.

So yeah, pretty significant difference in the two in almost all respects.

International schools pretty much never require host country language unless that is what you are teaching, so no, you don't need to sell anyone on immersion. ISs are pretty aware of how language acquisition works. And since most ISs don't require Anerkennung because they are Ergänzungsschulen, language is not required. If the school is an Ersatzschule and has its own process (like Phorms), then they can tell you if German is required. For an Anerkennung done independently (again, not really sure why you would bother), it is absolutely required.

And sure, you need a credential for a language school if the employer wants it, but the state doesn't require it. An employer can always require extraneous qualifications. They won't, though. If you have a teacher qualification in Germany, you can work at a public school for a LOT more money and a chance at Verbeamtung. No qualified teacher would work at a language school, so of course they won't require it. But sure, theoretically they could.

Once again, nonsense.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Alchemeister
>
> I get why you would want to undertake the process in advance if you dont
> have an EU passport, and need an appointment to sponsor a visa. While its
> possible to do so OS, its going to be a long term exercise in frustration
> and futility. An absent applicant who isnt there to push and doesnt have a
> right to work just isnt a priority, an will just get rejected as a matter
> of clearing the application. Youre also not likely to receive a different
> outcome, as written previously Germany as a whole tends to be rather rigid
> in regards to subject adjacent degrees.

The online portal is designed for both before and after arrival and offers consultation. It's designed to help simplify and streamline the process, something that has been an increasing issue with all the refugees from Syria and Ukraine (and with globalisation in general). It's about killing two birds with one stone--getting people integrated and solving the labor shortages in fields like education.

You don't need a sponsored visa for Germany as an American. You can show up and, if in the first 90 days you find a job, you THEN get the visa. Furthermore, the visa and the Anerkennung are different offices, completely unrelated.


>
> There isnt a state MOE thats particularly easier than another, not one
> thats going to have a more flexible acceptance of a subject adjacent
> degree. Germany is a lot like CAN in this regard while the provinces
> (German states) are separate they all have a model that doesnt have much
> room for interpretation, you need one of X degrees to qualify and there
> just isn't room for meaningful interpretation. Even if you were to slip
> through a crack, mutual recognition isnt at the national but the regional
> level so your credential from Region A doesnt automatically get you
> recognition in any other region.

Actually, as I have repeatedly said, there are some that are virtually impossible (Bavaria) while others are simpler. They don't have a process at all for third states (non-European), so you have to go some weird and complex routes. But way to state a whole lot of nothing.

>
> Just like the rest of IE, Germany has 1st, 2nd, 3rd tier ISs, the best
> route forward is finding a bottom third tier DS/IS that will sponsor a visa
> for you and have them walk your application through the process, which as I
> wrote earlier will handle the entire process but its mostly getting
> supporting documents accepted.
> You should be aware youre going to need a substantial degree of German
> language proficiency for this route unless your position is in ESOL and you
> sell them on the immersion approach, even then a lot of work is going to be
> in German and its not a positive selling point if everyone has to switch to
> English to handle the one expat.

Again, utter rot and ignores the differentiation between Ersatz and Ergänzungsschule. That has little to do with tiers. Most of the ISs find they need the flexibility of being an Ergänzungsschule--especially in Bavaria, where credentialing is harder and, more importantly, the calendar would not work well for international teachers! Thus most truly international schools--the ones typically on the Search / ISS / circuit--are Ergänzungsschulen, meaning you do not need a German teaching credential. A small number are Ersatzschulen, and these are going to help you get your credential--but even they have limits on what they can do. Remember, they don't walk you through the process (the consultant at the portal can do that). They have a different process entirely. They may be able to exempt the German language bit, but not the subject degrees as these would be essentially the 1. Staatsexamen equivalent. And if you use the independent route, you have to provide language certificates, so there is no "selling them on the immersion approach"--after all, you are being credentialed in your subject for a German public school, where you would be required to attend staff meetings, communicate with parents, etc. It's a required document.

If you want to teach in an adult language course, you don't need a credential for that.

Can I ask why you want to do this? Do you simply want to work in Germany as an international teacher? Target the international schools. Most are Ergänzungsschulen, where no such qualification is needed or are schools that basically takes care process (not just assisting you with documents, as PsyGuy implied, but submitting them for you and likely exempting you from submitting proof of German language). It sounds like the school that gave you the information is the latter, and they may be able to get a lot done, but even they are limited in what they can do depending on your degrees. But unless your goal is to work in a German public school, there is no real reason to go through this. If your goal is to work in a public school, my first question is why?

I can't tell you what state would be the easiest as it depends on a lot of factors, including your own qualifications. You mentioned American--do you have an M.Ed or other Masters? What subject and level? Other degrees? Work experience? Language ability (German) and proof thereof?You might also already need a work permit for some Bundesländer. Furthermore, there is a Wohnortsprinzip, the rule that the rules of the Land in which you live is the one you need to use. It's not a case of simply getting a teaching license in one state from afar, then getting a reciprocity recognition in the state you want, although this may work (not sure). I can tell you that Bavaria has no process and you're SOL barring some crazy bureaucratic gymnastics.

There is a portal you can use if you speak German, and they offer consultation as well as options for work if you aren't at a German school (they even list international schools as an option). https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland. ... raefte.php

He’s got to be feeding this into a bot. Blank paper in a binder?

Standard empty suit response. No knowledge, so bowing out of anything requiring it. Only responding to threads when someone else has already provided information, but rephrasing it and claiming superior knowledge. But at the first hint of being challenged, nothing but backing down.

Even in today’s AI world he fears exposing his ignorance and ending the game.

I mean, seriously, are you a bot? I use a word like plagiarism and you accuse me of it. I use troll and suddenly that's what you're calling me. I accused you of googling things, and in the next post it's what you say I a doing. I called you pathological and a liar, and suddenly those words are being used by you. I provide an anecdote and you claim to know a guy and drop the term anecdote. I give information that an Amt is just a term for government office and that they are ubiquitous, and suddenly you know all about where they are. I point out that a poor observation doesn't lead to immediate termination, and suddenly you know all about the process for remediation. I bring up the fact that Germany's education is not nationally unified, and suddenly you are all about the different Bundesländer.

It's comical, really.

I wonder how long you would keep this up.

But when I challenge you to prove your knowledge, you demonstrate that you have nothing. Go ahead, hot shot. Ask questions or answer mine. Prove you are more than talk.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Part of the pattern. I must really threaten your self esteem.

Ah, should I ask some questions? Show your knowledge of German language, horses, or any of those areas you claim I know nothing about.

And again . . . .

Would you like to take a crack at proving your knowledge? Oh wait. You always avoid those opportunities.

I love this. Schools are following rules that don't apply to them to avoid future headaches even though, again, the rules don't apply? The KMK isn't relevant to education? The MSA isn't a full leaving certificate even though nearly 60% get it, then leave? And did you not know that every noun in German is always capitalised? And are you seriously claiming rigidity and exceptions/addendums?

These are as classic as the mythical Japanese equestrian school posting. Pretend to be an expert, and when google fails, claim you don't need to provide evidence or talk about whatever it was I posted. What's next--"do your own research" or "only data matters"? Or is this another thread where you tell me how much money I add to my savings each year? I mean, if we are going with the hits, you may as well play all your best numbers.

You don't answer direct questions to prove your expertise, you don't offer new information, and you don't explain anything unless you can google it or someone else explained it first. You are a fraud, a liar, and an absolute gem for entertainment.

Anyway, this has been an entertaining way to start into the summer, but we have beaten this dead horse until it has risen up to haunt us. I answered the OP's question, you got to play troll for a bit and pretend to have known people who have experienced the stuff you are pretending happens, and now you can pretend you always knew all about what KMK stands for or what any of the myriad other German terms I used means. Your delusions are fed, I have had a good laugh, and hopefully the OP tuned out long ago.

If you want to play, feel free to expound on any of the points I brought up that you haven't touched yet.

You are pathological.