I'm not sure having an EU passport is really that much of a benefit (speaking as an EU passport holder and getting my EU passport before I did my research). There are a lot of top schools in the EU countries that only accept non-EU passport holders (Best example is the American School of Warsaw).

I don't think I've ever heard of a school trying to get people out by a certain time. That's just crazy. I never even knew such a thing existed.

The only things you should take with you are:

- Your clothes (because they don't have a lot of bigger sizes available or don't have clothes that accommodate curvy body types), especially shoes (bigger sizes are hard to find).
- Most technology you will use regularly like cameras and laptops (because it would either be lower quality in China or more expensive).
- Medicine like the last poster said.

China's not a third world country (more like 2nd world). You'll be able to get anything else (including towels and sheets) without any issues.

> I think part of the issue is that we have two different definitions of ITs.
> One is "anyone who works at anything calling itself a school" or
> something similarly broad. The other is "certified teachers at expat
> schools"--the old school, for lack of a better term, definition. For
> the second category, not much has changed. The huge increase in schools
> means you are seeing a lot more jobs for the first category, which is also
> part of the reason for the lower wages you are seeing. However, the second
> category teachers have learned to expect these fantastic packages, and they
> have created an atmosphere in which all ITs expect this. Thus the feeling
> of entitlement I described.

It'll be problematic if people on here continue to recognize only the latter category as International Teachers. In the future expat schools are not going to grow and the amount of schools catering to host nationals is only going to increase.

Employment is the reason people work in China. Simple as that.

In my country there are too many teachers and not enough jobs. I wouldn't enjoy a good quality of life (economically speaking) if I stayed back home to try to pursue teaching further (go through the substitutes list, mat leaves, and wait pretty much 10 years for a full time job).

There are so many schools in China compared to the rest of the world that it's easy for a new teacher to gain teaching experience and have a full time job. Also, pretty much anywhere outside of Shanghai and Beijing has a lower cost of living and a good wage. I've saved quite a lot of money in my three years here and I've been in the third-tier so far in my career.

I never understood the concept of being a local hire. Maybe this is new to me because I've been in teaching and IT for such a short time, but even in the two Tier 3 schools I've worked at this has never come up as an issue. It might be that I've worked at Canadian schools and it's just not an issue there (even nationals from the host country are paid like international teachers as long as they got their teaching credentials from an English-speaking western country). Teachers hired for international school teaching positions should get international school pay, simple as that.

Could someone explain this a bit more? How prevalent is this and why does it happen? It just seems so shady (I've even heard that in some cases, teachers moving to a different school in the same country might be classified as a local hire).

alexout wrote:
> Normally I would say to take the job in the third tier school and get
> started in admin, except for this comment you made:
>
> "I really don't think a 20 year teacher can contribute as much to the
> classroom as someone who has taught 10 years."
>
> Wow. You're not ready. You need a lot more experience teaching if you make
> that kind of comment. Maybe it's a reflection of the experience you've had
> and the people you've worked with. Maybe you've had bad luck with your
> colleagues. You haven't been at this for very long. Try teaching in tier 1
> schools and having those pedagogical conversations with teachers who have
> more experience than you do - teaching all kinds of kids, living through
> all kinds of experiences, and raising children of their own. You might
> learn something. Maybe then you can become an administrator, whose job is
> to understand and support teachers, not write them off based on having too
> much experience in the classroom.

Sorry if this came off as arrogant or offensive. I didn't mean for it to seem like that. I'm not saying 20-year teachers should be written off. I'm saying that a teacher who has 10 years of experience is just as valuable (in my mind) as a teacher of 20 years. I mean to say that they are both equally good (that the extra 10 years of experience doesn't make the 20-year teacher that much better).

You are probably right, however, and I need to spend more time teaching before I make that kind of judgment. I'm sure after 6-10 years of teaching (and life in general) I'll look back on my comments and re-evaluate my opinions/thoughts. After all I'm only in my 20s.

I have a small question about entering administration. I guess to make this question easy to answer, I'd like to say a little about my goals.

- I plan on teaching for about 6 to 10 years total (so far my teaching has been all international and it most likely will remain that way). I've been teaching for 3 years now.
- After that I'd like to move into an administrative position (e.g. Vice Principal) and move up the ranks through admin.

My three main reasons for this are:
- Educational Leadership always interests me. I love having pedagogical conversations with my colleagues, especially my current Principal who is very receptive to teachers' ideas, about how best to make the school a great place to be for teachers and students alike. I enjoy hearing about the behind the scenes activities of schools a lot.
- I think after 10 years of teaching I'll have been as good at teaching as I can be. I really don't think a 20 year teacher can contribute as much to the classroom as someone who has taught 10 years.
- I want to think about my future in terms of money and going into administration does mean I can make more money than I would as a teacher.

My question is: What is the best way to enter administration?

I'm currently at a third-tier school and enjoying myself (there are benefits to life in third-tier schools that may not be found in the higher level), but I eventually want to move to higher-tier schools.

If I have the opportunity to move into administration at a tier 3 school, should I take it? Or does that leave me stuck in administration in third-tier schools? (I've heard of VPs going back to teaching in 2nd tier schools after being administrators in the 3rd tier. Also, some administrators in 3rd tier schools have only been teachers for about 3 years). Or should I work until I get to a higher-tier school and enter administration at that stage?

Any experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

Are there any forums that people know of that are more about teaching and less about recruitment like this one is?

I don't mind it here when asking general questions about places to go, and career stuff, but there isn't a lot of discussion about teaching in general.

Is there a forum where people can share teaching strategies and even resources and discuss pedagogy in general? Or even just a place to share fun classroom stories?

If there is one that's specific to IT that would be even better, but if it's just about teaching in general I'm fine with that too. Any help with this would be appreciated.

That's not really a positive for teachers. You have to pay more money on top of the normal fees to attend those fairs. Networking can be done in many other free (or at least much cheaper) ways.

Wouldn't schools be more likely to accept a direct application through their website or to their email? I don't see how someone applying through a third . such as Search would have a better chance of getting a position in this situation.

Shenzhen is also a great option. Best air quality in China (out of big cities with lots of International Schools) and you're right beside Hong Kong (you could go every weekend if you wanted to).

I've so far been wary in my (admittedly very short) IT career (and teaching in general) of recruiting agencies. I just saw that the last Tier 3 school I worked at (which I hated) was able to put themselves on Search Associates and a good friend of mine is also hating his current school that he got in touch with through Search Associates. We both moved to different schools at the same time and I ended up far happier of the two of us (especially since I didn't have to pay a cent, I just applied to the school directly).

SA asks for a lot of money from you considering the quality of some schools on there.

"Younger ITs see younger leadership as peers, team members who do different tasks (and I blame leadership for this trying to be everyones friend, and not their supervisor, and not establish the dichotomy in that relationship)."

- And why is this wrong exactly? Kind of revealing my age here...

On another note, ageism may also come from the ITs home country. In some countries there are more certified teachers than schools require (a result of disconnect between supply and demand). Many younger ITs are teaching abroad because there were very little jobs in their home country (myself included). The prevailing attitude is that older teachers are the ones holding on to those jobs well into the age of retirement (60s) and are even going back for supply positions. Basically, older teachers are responsible for keeping these jobs away from younger teachers.

This is especially discouraging for younger teachers when they have done practicums in schools as student teachers and have seen full-time, well-paid teachers sit in their desk all day or just be mediocre in general. Younger teachers then take these opinions with them to IT (regardless of whether it applies or not).

I know there is no formal system for accepting applicants but I was just wondering which route would be the best to take. I personally think the workshop route is the easiest and I know it's the route that most schools take to "certify" their teachers.