@PsyGuy

I find your answers and responses insufficient, naive and completely laughable.

@PsyGuy

No to absolutely all of your pathetic points. No date mix ups, unsatisfactory evidence all round. The police were even said to comment on the fact that there was no case.
The Turkish purge is conjecture. So so funny! All those journalists, lawyers and other professionals all locked away is just all made up.
Nope it would have been dropped or collapsed in all other countries with a strong rule of law and a strong child service procedure. Not nonsense, pure fact.
Please tell me where in Turkish law a case can be dropped sub juddice?
I agree, fleeing looks bad. But, being released from an investigation and returning home, does not. MLA exists. Severe mental health issues do. Also, I am not repeating myself again about the hundreds of issues facing the RP.

@PsyGuy

Nope, it was not a strong case to bring to trial. In fact I’ve heard many legal experts say how weak it is.

They ARE unfounded claims. They have not been examined over time, quite the opposite. They are still weak and insufficient.

The motivation behind CIMER set up by the AKP was perhaps set up to sack/witch hunt/purge Gulenists? It could be classed as very uneuropean?

The cctv entered to court was apparently extensive. The complaint made was on a specific day and logged. All children were playing in an area covered by cctv. It sounded like a child responding to a parents excessive questioning and made something up.

I’m for justice. Justice for all and nobody is getting it here. In my very humble opinion this case and trial in Türkiye is being influenced by the parents and scant regard is being paid to the actual child claimant and a defendant battling to save their reputation and liberty. It is a ridiculous charade.

Again, once a case has been pushed into a higher court in Türkiye it cannot be dismissed. I believe there was pressure to charge Richardson. This case should not have got this far. Extradition is the procedure necessary for it to come to a conclusion. I think if the teacher turned up they would quite literally be pooping themselves at court.

Places can have a rich culture at the beginning of a tenure with a continuing slide into autocracy and a diminishing rule of law by the end of it.

I don’t believe the UK or Türkiye have any interest in harbouring child abusers and they would have packed her off to the ‘Bul years ago if they thought she’d done it.

Fugitive or not. Fair trials have to exist.

And just as you have zero idea about whether the alleged (unfounded) events or true or not, I can make a stab that there could be some monetary motivation from the claimant parents or some sort of instability in their parenting.

Yawn

@PsyGuy

Reverse to February 2019. Richardson was released from all court restrictions due to there being no concrete evidence. Meaning the case was investigated thoroughly and at an end (and elsewhere that would be that).

However, after the attempted coup in 2016 the AKP set up a complaints process for citizens to complain about figures in public office. Its aim was less than transparent. After the claimant family started a formal procedure of complaint about the school and the prosecutor, Richardson was charged. I’d be scared at this point.

Move on to 2023. No new evidence has been submitted by the alleged claimants, yet in stark contrast to a few years ago, suspicion of a crime when charged has now moved to there being concrete evidence? I’d be petrified.

I am not confusing exoneration with extradition. I do however think if the UK were truly concerned Richardson had offended, a red notice would have been immediate and the UK would not have discharged her. Türkiye can also put pressure on the CPS to appeal a discharge. They did not. Odd?

The child’s medical reports show redness in the first report. The second report shows, fissures, scratches and bruises. The photograph timestamps back this timeline. The claimants also speak of an incident outdoors that cctv clearly shows was a fabrication.It maybe inconclusive, but it is also unfounded. Possibly a hysterical parent blaming everything upon a teacher rather than taking responsibility for it herself, methinks.

I was also referring to Richardson’s evidence, medical, Human rights and prison report which has not been touched upon in the press and is unknown in the mainstay. Also although an extradition judge cannot base his case on evidence he would be able to comment on issues he had observed. Without reading the judgement you cannot know his feelings around the quality of the evidence in the case.

Geographically, Türkiye is in Europe. It is a wonderful place to visit and for most ex pats, to live in. Check where it ranks in the World Justice project index (117). Take a look at some prison and torture reports... Find out about the Yalvac assurance… Look up what happened to BBCs Mark Lowen. See how much of their press is state owned? European, my backside.

Also as a side note. Take a scroll through some reviews from 2019 on this very site. The parents may have had a motivation behind THIS allegation. It’s only an opinion but it sets a scene.

Oh yes, we are all innocent until proven guilty. Let’s please start using ‘alleged’ whilst there is a trial ongoing. Ummm, it is child abuser. Survivors and rights groups look down on the use of ‘pedo’. You are supposed to be a teacher and all.

@PsyGuy

Oh give it up.

You know zero about Turkish law. The case cannot collapse or be dismissed once in court. There is just no mechanism for it to happen. If the parent claimants dropped the case and it went into settlement, maybe? The judiciary have to continue with due process.

You have not read the defence for the extradition case.

You do not know the judgement from the extradition case you are just guessing. There was no appeal from the CPS?

You do not know the contents of the medical report.

Comparing this poor woman to Epstein? Time to retire from teaching and this forum. What a vile troll you’ve become. Go work on some sleazy media outlet where you can band around the hideous ‘miss pedo’ tag like The Sun newspaper in the UK.

It would have been over in weeks or days in most other jurisdictions that are independent and not so politically motivated.

I wouldn’t wish false allegations on any teacher, but I could be changing my mind?

Thank Christ for ECHR.

@PsyGuy
1) it was carried out by a trained psychologist for law enforcement. It is being treated as concrete evidence although her questioning was led and tagged.

2) of course they know about the report! Why do you think the parents sued the lawyer and experts! Maybe the judge just doesn’t want open the can of worms it contains?

3) Yeap. But it is YEARS later and she is middle aged and been in the media?

4) The question you need to ask is why wouldn’t she return? It is part of the ECHR so she can take it to Strasbourg. Read the original article again. You do know something of Türkiye, surely? Do you know about the complaint procedure that was set up by AKP and what the motivation might be? Do you think she felt supported? Do you think she was actually well enough to face a lengthy trial procedure? Or are you one of the anti woke brigade that thinks moderate to severe depression is just being a bit sad. Take a look at the implications of false allegations on your profession, PsyGuy? If we don’t want to pathologise the teacher, 6 years is a long time to be called ‘Miss Pedo’…


5) UK and Türkiye can obtain evidence through Mutual Legal Assistance. This can be DNA and interviews etc. Look it up.

6) AGAIN, why didn’t she want to return? Did she feel unsafe? Was she too ill? Did she know the trial would last a few years (things take a long time over there, there was zero chance of teaching again) and she would not have medical care, a job or be around her elderly parents? Would the school still give her support? No union and no pay and no free legal representation. AGAIN, Turkey is In Europe and ECHR, but should it be? For some (probably not) inexplicable reason she felt she couldn’t return.

OR stay put in your ‘relatively’ safe European home and take the case to Strasbourg where being an independent foreign white single woman won’t be held against you.

And do you really stupidly think if she had stayed it all would have disappeared in five minutes??? The whole ordeal is ridiculous and unfounded.
The end!

Just to correct you on a couple of points @PsyGuy

The child was not interviewed by the defence, but by law enforcement. It was recorded.

The defence forensic expert report has never been heard in the Turkish court. The claimant parents made a criminal complaint against the defence lawyers and the three forensic experts who had written the report. No action was taken after an investigation so they again complained about the lack of inaction. Again it was found that the experts acted within the agreements of the court.

I think 6 and a half years later or 20 plus years more of teaching, other victims would have come forward. For now, this is NO serial abuser.

Richardson left legally due to lack of concrete evidence. She had not been asked for DNA samples due to the child’s interview and the type of assault she alleged she experienced.

Richardson, like many of us in IT was an early years teacher. Normal, respectful, high quality care in EY would mean teachers support children and would handle clothing, hold hands, occasionally need to support children by picking them up etc. children would be toilet trained but accidents happen. Touch DNA would almost be a certainty from the alleged crime scene. From an incident at home 3 days later? Not so sure. It is ‘fuzzy’ because it is not clear who has been eliminated by testing. In the latest court records it appears it is the claimant child and a profile that is similar? This has not always been clear.

The news says Richardson will not be extradited. There is no info about the actual judgement. Despite this, her team have attempted many times for her to be heard and she still has a right to a fair trial.

The UK currently has an agreement with Türkiye that all RPs must serve their sentence Yalvac prison.

I admire your dedication and support to survivors, but this is a forum for ITs and you yourself know that accusations happen to us all. People are innocent until proven guilty. I don’t believe for one second that Richardson is engaging in DARVO principles.

However, the DEFENCE and the CLAIMANT should both be heard by the court (and the media) until a judgement has been given.

@PsyGuy

“Again the DEFENSE expert says the child was uncooperative. Could be because
> the DEFENSE expert isnt an advocate for the victim.”

There are two acceptable ways of spelling defence/defense depending which English speaking country you are from. Are you even an international teacher. Broaden that mind and outlook.

I also meant to point out that you clearly struggled with the meaning of prima facie, too, but thought it a bit rude.

@PsyGuy

In direct reply:

1) why didn’t they go the police straight away?

2) Richardson had had no contact with the child for 3 or 4 days but bruising allegedly occurs in between exams. The other injury is NOT bruising.

Court experts give opinions. It was the fact that the family continued to photograph the child months later and the same type of injury was occurring in slightly different areas. It is only an opinion but it has to be considered.

3) 15 children engaging in a sex act? The mother’s story also grows and changes?

There is a video of the child (viewed by the judge) and she can be observed. It is not just the defence opinion.

4) Forensic evidence can be obtained through touching but it is her underwear being tested (from an incident at home) three days after the alleged event. It is still unclear if there was foreign DNA. Also it does not appear to be a significant issue in the trial. Touch DNA would be possible on clothes (especially as an Early Years Teacher) would it not? All we know is the child did not corroborate the mother’s claims.

5) The claimants said other children were in the area or being abused at the same time. It’s fuzzy.

6) Serial abuser? She’s been accused of one crime. It’s been headline news in two countries.

7) Her bail was rescinded. She had no conditions to stay. There were no conditions to return. She had not been charged.

8) Richardson’s team have attended every court hearing and a video statement was attempted. Her reason for not returning? That’s hers and might not just be a sign of obvious guilt.

Finally, there are horrific offenders out there. What if this is not one of them and a rare case of a false allegation? I know she will not be getting your support but hope she does elsewhere.

@psyguy

~ So what? Is there a time line that mandates a victims report to be believable, or is it just in your mind that anything less than an immediate report is suspect. Maybe the parent didnt immediately believe it, maybe the victim didnt immediately report it to their parent.

The parents reported it to school first, then three days later to the police. The child was interviewed the next week.

~ So what? People arent perfect, and theres nothing sacrosanct about the first report. I read essays and papers all the time and I find different issues and even ideas in a second reading. Further, two different practitioners can reach different conclusions and have different finding. People arent perfect.

The medical reports were taken within 24 hours of each other. There were more bruises and issues in the second report. They were not ‘missed’ as those areas had already been thoroughly examined in the first examination. The defence expert report says that the injuries are more likely to do with a common health complaint. Photos provided say this issue continues months after the alleged abuse.

~ So what? The parent wasnt present at the time of the crime, they are having to organize reports and information themselves. Add shock, trauma, confusion, frustration, and anger and there are going to be discrepancies.

The mother said all fifteen members of the class were involved in what sounded like a very florid and outlandish event. She claimed other staff knew and were either being silenced by Richardson or intimidated by school.
The defence expert report says the child was uncooperative in her interview and she was led to answer some questions.

~ So what? Was the DNA stable enough for typing and identification, otherwise whats the issue? They obtained the ITs DNA from eBay or Amazon?

It is not clear who has been eliminated by DNA. Richardson has been accused of ‘touching’. There was no penetration according to medical exams.

~So what? The other victims were victimized at different times and places, why would they have to corroborate this victims assault?

I’ve answered this.

~ So what? pedo abusers cant be creative and inventive in carrying out their abuse? There was a witness, the victim. What you expect an accomplished abuser to commit their crimes in plain sight, only Trump can get away with that.

This is the only abuse Richardson has been charged with. The alleged events were said to have occurred during lunch with other students and in the children’s shared toilet area. The claimants say it was happening in plain sight and again, witnesses were being intimidated not to come forward.

~ Yes, they made that claim because she ran.

True, but she left legally.

~ Yes, the mental health concern being that detention and incarceration is unpleasant and likely to have a negative impact on ones mental health.

True

~ Shes the abuser she doesnt get to dictate the terms of the investigation or judicial process. She also ran, why should she be given any accommodation at all.

She is the alleged abuser and the burden of proof lies with the alleged victim and claimant. She has a right to defend herself and reputation.

I’m off to enjoy my vacation now.

My word @PsyGuy you’ve made some big old assumptions here not based on any facts. Read some court minutes and maybe the judgement when it is released. I know you like a bit of rage baiting but careful what you stir up.

“Key aspects of Article 8:
Right to Private Life:
This includes various aspects of personal autonomy, such as personal development, physical and psychological integrity, and reputation.
Right to Family Life:
This protects the right to establish and maintain relationships with family members, including those arising from biological or social ties.
Right to Home:
This encompasses the right to a secure and stable dwelling, and can extend to situations involving environmental protection.
Right to Correspondence:
This protects the confidentiality of communication, including letters, emails, and other forms of communication.
Interference by Public Authorities:
While Article 8 protects these rights, it also acknowledges that public authorities may need to interfere with them in certain circumstances.
Legitimate Aims:
Interference with Article 8 rights can be justified if it is necessary to protect national security, public safety, the economic well-being of the country, prevent disorder or crime, protect health or morals, or protect the rights and freedoms of others.
Proportionality:
Any interference must be proportionate to the aim pursued. This means the interference must be necessary and not excessive in relation to the legitimate aim being pursued.”

Also @PsyGuy

Are all jurisdictions the same? The little I know of both countries systems is one has a judge only trial, the other has a jury. I’m sure both have their failures but where would you prefer to be detained or on bail? Check it out. How about charging levels and evidence tests. Let’s throw in social and child service checks (a question mark in this affair, too).

Those pesky human rights do allow people a right to a private and family life. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty and this has rolled on for years and due process could make it continue for some more. According to her article she has already lost her father and she would likely not see her mother again if she was to return.

I’m leaving it there, but I’d not wish this on any teacher or school, especially with such weak evidence as the media about it suggests.

@PsyGuy

With all respect to survivors out there, this case might not just a mother and daughter’s word against a teacher and TA. These cases need to be sensitively and respectfully addressed but also investigated thoroughly. You cannot send what could be an innocent person to prison just because the allegation involves such a delicate subject area. Head over heart has to prevail.

If I can lay out points heard in court as plainly as as possible:

-family reported case 3 days after alleged event
-two medical exams in 24 hours. Second report had further injuries/issues.Defendant had ceased contact with child days before both exams were made.
-Mother’s claims were different to child.
-Evidence collected for DNA were from an incident at home days later and not from school.
-Two named children who were also alleged to have been abused could not corroborate the allegations.
-The alleged incidents occurred in an open plan building in a shared bathroom and dining area. There was a high volume of staff, parents and children present.
-Parents (who are claimants in the case) accused Richardson of fleeing after she left the country when her bail was lifted due to lack of evidence in the case.
-Richardson did not return to Türkiye stating mental Health issues. Therefore she has not attended hearings or had her DNA sample taken.
-Rebecca’s Turkish lawyers have attempted to have a statement heard by video link, in an Embassy and by law enforcement.The severity of the alleged crime, means her appeals were rejected.

However, this is my peeve. If she has been arrested in UK she would have automatically had a DNA sample taken. Why can’t this profile be shared with Türkiye? Is this me being a really naive and unscientific person?

The extradition case verdict will be given, 25th June.
Both parties may appeal so this could run for another 18 months due to back logs in court cases in the UK.
Remember, even if Rebecca is not extradited, the criminal case in Türkiye will still proceed and all legal means of appeal in their legal system have to occur until she is able to have her case considered by the ECHR.
This is years and years of a somebody’s life.
The obvious criticism is why she just never returned? For Rebecca it seems she did not want to revoke her rights as a UK citizen and sought support from her family. As international teachers we are foreigners and not citizens of our host countries.