I've been to Shanghai and Bangkok more times than I can count.

I think they are both great postings for families with two children. However, Bangkok would be my preference.

Food safety - there is a better selection of food and it is generally more fresh in Bangkok. Both have tons of truly excellent restaurants, but restaurant food in Bangkok is generally better quality and cheaper. Food in the grocery store in Bangkok is also much cheaper, and its easier and more healthy to eat like a local,there.

Air quality - China had made great strides in improving air quality, and I find the current air pollution levels in shanghai to be OK. I also keep an AQI reader in my house, and whenever it goes above 50 I turn on my air filters. Air in Bangkok is generally cleaner, but it can also be polluted sometimes.

Family friendliness - while they are both good for families, I think Bangkok is more family friendly. Cleaners, cooks, and child care providers are cheaper and generally do a better job in Thailand. Finding a good cook in shanghai can be very difficult and expensive. This just isn't the case in thailand.

Traveling with a family - traveling with a family to and from each city is also easier in Bangkok. Flights are slightly more plentiful and much lower cost in Bangkok. Teachers living in Bangkok can travel all throughout South east Asia fairly easily and cheaply. This just isn't the case living in China. Shanghai's airports do offer a ton of flights but they are generally more expensive, and it's slightly harder to reach destinations that are generally considered family-friendly and attractive.

Apartment life - teachers at tier 1 schools have wonderful housing in shanghai. Apartments are kept cool in the summer and warm in the winter with central heating. Families at my school are generally given apartments that are three bedrooms, two baths, and over 2500 sq/ft. For kids, It can be hard to find places to play outside. If your kids are younger, they would probably love to live in an apartment complex with a pool. Most apartment complexes in Thailand have great pools, and this can be a great way to get your kids out of the house on a Saturday morning or after school.

I've been on ISR for roughly a decade. I've probably read just about every review ever posted. From what I've found, there are only two schools that consistently get superlative positive reviews. One is in Switzerland and the other is in China.

In case the original poster is not aware, the Chinese gov does not allow Chinese passport holders to enroll in international school programs, and "Intl' divisions" of local schools that serve mostly local students.

If the Intl' Schools could enroll local students, it would be a dream situation, and we'd all have huge waiting lists, and much more diverse classrooms.

Put the books Getting to Yes and Difficult Conversations on your summer reading list. These books have given me tools to have constructive conversations on difficult topics with colleagues and bosses. In both situations I've been complimented on how tough situations were handled.

Its quite subjective, but for me independent schools in the US are also a great source of inspiration. A short list of more progressive schools for me would include:
Punaho, for teaching staff quality and training
Harker, for their entrepreneurship program
KIPP for working with disadvantaged youth
Castilleja for creating their own advanced curriculum

International schools I would also consider (I'm trying not to break forum rules here)
Western Academy Beijing
Concordia International School Shanghai
Singapore American School
American School of Bombay
New International School Thailand

Joe30, you are correct. But also keep in mind that exchange rates are likely to have the biggest impact on how much teacher working in China can save. Based on large macro trends that take place over the course of years, it's a pretty good bet to say that the RMB will continue to devalue vs the USD. Just this week XI JiPing announced that they are abandoning their 6.5% economic growth target. Devaluing the currency even further will help to stay closer to the new target. As was stated earlier, the US has also begun to raise interest rates, and will most likely continue to do so, which will also make the USD stronger. These things are not yet priced in, but will continue to effect all of us working in China. I've been in China for four years, and even though I keep going up the salary scale, I haven't been able to send more money home due to the RMBs continuing weakness vs the dollar.

joe30 wrote:
> If any of you knew for certain which way the RMB (or any other currency) was going
> to go, then you're wasting your talents in teaching, and should instead be pulling
> in 7 figures+ at a trading house.
>
> All of the stuff here is just guesses, and when the common man is making 'predictions'
> like this they're often priced into the market already anyway.

Thanks to everyone who responded. It really highlighted what I have already been in the process of accepting. With a child in the picture, it becomes more important to have some type of home base.

when I started international teaching, during summer I would travel for a few weeks and then go home to be with friends and family. Now that I have a small child, it's a lot harder to deal with long flights and hop from house to house all summer. I'm thinking about buying or renting a house somewhere. What do other international teachers with small children do to have a home base in the summer?

I think snow beaver is correct. For intl teachers real estate investments will lag behind self managed index fund strategies. The main disadvantage is that international teachers cannot self manage their own properties when they are gone. Finding new tenants, fixing broken doors, etc, all need to be managed by a mgmt company. These all take away from the bottom line.

I think this is a great topic. I currently live in a big city, but would love to live somewhere that leant itself to a more active lifestyle.

A couple of thoughts on earlier comments in this thread. Last year, I talked to a husband and wife team who work in the PNG mining school that was mentioned earlier. i could comment on the school and package, but instead I'll direct my comments towards life in PNG. It's very isolated and can be dangerous. Deadly snakes in the low lands, dangerous and unpredictable local tribes, etc. They have a highland and lowland campus and fly between them in a helicopter because the road is too dangerous.

Brent actually has three campuses. The one in Baguio would be considered the most remote.

Some other schools I would put on the list would be:
Discovery Bay intl school in Hong Kong
Zurich intl sch high school campus.
Anglo American sch Sofia
St. John's intl sch Belgium
A number of Swiss boarding schools
There is an intl school in Mauritius
Public Schools in Alaska, and parts of the west.

Great list by Martella!

I might add
Saigon south
UNIS Hanoi

5000 a year doesn't seem like a livable wage. I would look for a better offer, and save my money for a Maldives vacation.

5000 usd per month - 60K a year seems like it would be pretty good. If you scuba dive, I would seriously consider this offer.

> 1. What is career advancement or goals to you? Do you just aim to become a better
> teacher? leadership? admin? landing at a top school?

For me, career advancement is professional, personal, and financial. Professionally, I'd like to continue to hone my craft, do my best, and benefit those I work with. Personally, I want to continue working in schools that offer positive work environments, and continue to travel and have amazing adventures for my entire life. Financially, I am willing to work in locations that provide the previous two things and allow teaching couples to save at least 40K a year.

> 2. Do you think you can retire from IT well? or will your retirement dependent upon
> investments and pension plans from a previous career?
Yes, given that you start early and understand that teaching couples will probably need almost 2million dollars to retire comfortably back in the US. Of course that number varies depending on a large number of things.

> 3. Do you work on the side? Anyone freelance or something outside of tutoring?
No

> 4. Has the IT market kept up with inflation in the last 10+ years?
Yes and no. There are still some great schools that have, but I feel like they are the minority. My belief is that with globalization further taking hold, it won't make economic sense to send expats and their families overseas, when locals are equally qualifies to do the same work for much less. Without large numbers of expat packages paying big tuitions, most tier one schools would need to compete with tier two schools for local students.

> 5. Just wondering: can anyone compare teaching at University level with teaching
> at high school level?
Not me.

PsyGuy wrote:

> I believe at some level all ITs/DTs have a similar motivation.

This gave me a laugh. That may be your perspective, but wow, we live with different perspectives my friend. Where I live, the huge majority of ITs love what they do, and work their butts off because they are empowered to develop their passions and express their intelligence ever more fully. Students at my school say the art teachers are tough graders, and they sometimes have to go to the office hours if they want to get an A in a gen Ed art class.

Btw- a student at my school was accepted early to RISD (highly selective, top ranked art school) last week. It wasn't because of her coil pot skills.