Search found 9 matches

by Philzim
Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:05 am
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: IB vs The Rest
Replies: 39
Views: 110358

Re: IB vs The Rest

@PsyGuy I think we're in agreement. IB have just packaged inquiry methodology and global citizenship. As you say, it's not the preserve of IB. I've seen these delivered wonderfully in publicly funded state schools delivering a national curriculum, I've also seen a complete absence of inquiry & methodology (except for the posters on the walls) in IB accredited schools.

@ Spawnboy Apologies for my apparently frivolous tangent, it was my attempt to answer your questions through example. Let me be more direct:

1. What does the IB IB Framework has over the rest, and why is it so hard for educators to get into an IB school without the experience unless they are open to diving into a less desirable country?

Personally, I like IB as it is relatively free of political interference by state / national governments. Therefore "standards" & content are not manipulated for the convenience of politicians. (I worked in UK system for 12 yrs - political interference was a nightmare).
I like the relative coherence of IB programmes, the emphasis on inquiry & international mindedness. I like the values and aims of the programme, and the mission of IB. None of this is the unique preserve of IB, none of this is authentically realised in all IB schools, none of this is perfect. It's just better than I have seen in other systems (I haven't seen them all, but I've seen a few).

I don't think it is harder to get a job in an IB School than a non-IB school. I know that this is a very unpopular view on this board, but my experience recruiting teachers in 4 IB schools (and 2 non IB schools) just isn't that we placed the bar higher in the IB schools. All of the recruitment teams that I have worked on were looking for specific values and skills, the teacher that could demonstrate these best, and was the best 'fit' was offered the position. The "IB experience" issue is highly contextual, and isn't best described in abstract generalities. EG if all my DP Maths teachers are leaving, and I have a G12 DP Maths HL class to staff I am definitely looking for someone with DP experience. However, if the rest of my DP Maths teachers are staying on, and I'm just looking for a new maths teacher to join an already strong team I'm looking at a far wider range of factors than just DP experience. Whether someone is a good teacher has little relation with whether they have IB experience. Some of the best teachers that I recruited to teach IB had absolutely no IB experience at all. I particularly enjoyed watching colleagues leave challenging classrooms in their national systems, and fully appreciate the freedom & latitude to teach in our (far less challenging) IB classrooms.

2. Also once in an IB school and you move up into leadership positions how does that improve your chance to move up the ladder in a more desirable country?

One person's desirable country is another person's 'less desirable' country. Some of the highest salaries in the world are paid in the ME, but personally I wouldn't want to work there. However, general principles - once you're in the "IB world" you get to know colleagues across the IB system, you can demonstrate your commitment to the curriculum (become an examiner, join IBEN, join Curriculum Review groups etc). It then becomes far easier to move around between IB schools across the world. Colleagues are aware of your work, they understand how you will develop the programme etc. When you've been in leadership in an IB school colleagues in leadership across the network will understand the values and leadership style that you will bring to the programmes at their school. This will give you better access to schools in your target countries (esp if you attend leadership conferences in those countries).

3. Also does working in an IB school narrow your job prospect as you haven't been exposed to other curriculums?

I guess it depends on what other jobs you're looking at. It's such a broad question because it depends on the type of role, the context, your specific skills etc. I was asked to take up roles back in the UK national system after I'd been working in IB for 15 years (btw - there was NO way that I wanted to go back to a national system !). However, I have had colleagues who worked on specific IB developments (eg assessment, learning support, curriculum development) who then transitioned into other international bodies (such as CIS) and national bodies (in Australia, Chile, UK, US, Canada). In summary - "it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it".
by Philzim
Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:32 am
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: IB vs The Rest
Replies: 39
Views: 110358

Re: IB vs The Rest

In some ways this demarcation of IB schools vs the rest is a little misleading.

I think the question is: "to what extent does IB accreditation make the school an "IB" school ?"
or "are all IB schools similar ?", or "what is 'IB-ness' ?".

I've worked in 4 schools that had IB accreditation, and all 4 schools were very different to each other.

School 1 was a very big Y7-13 school offering DP alongside an attenuated UK national curriculum G6-10. This school was very similar to a UK grammar school in culture, language and practices. The DP was very successful, but it was merely one element of a range of factors that made this school successful. At this school hiring practices were more focussed on getting the best teachers from UK, rather than thinking about developing an internationally minded faculty, IB experience barely flickered on the register.

School 2 was a medium size mixed boarding & day K-12 school offering IPC, Common Core (G6-8), iGCSE & DP. All of the students were national students (incl. boarders), yet the school had strong international values, and felt like a true international sch. When you walked through the door this school immediately felt like an IB school, international mindedness was not just an element of this sch (like sch 1), but was articulated through their many curricula. Leadership & faculty at this school were all very IB minded ("part of the cult" as a forum member here might say, or "good people who have clear values about the role of education" as I would say). Faculty here were about 50% UK and 50% rest of the world, and those UK colleagues were very internationally minded. At this school we hired people who were a good fit for our approach (emphasis on inquiry approach, lots of activities, a propensity to out-doorness, etc), this was a far stronger factor than any IB experience.

School 3 was a medium size K-12 IB World School, offering all 4 programmes, no other curricula - just IB. Purportedly this school existed for IB (much modelled after UWC), and was outwardly drenched in the IB values, mission, practices etc etc. The faculty were very international (only 4 Brits in a faculty of 75, colleagues came from 20+ countries), and the students were about 50:50 national:international. However, the local context, ownership issues, and institutional legacy meant that much of the 'IB-ness' of this school was surface presentation only. At this school IB experience was strongly preferred, but we still hired people without IB experience.

School 4 - a medium sized K-12 school offering self written curricula K-10, and DP. Despite the DP being the only IB bit on top of 10 preceding yrs of non-IB curriculum this school fairly exemplifies the IB values and practices. International mindedness is there in the air..., the school has been "born that way". Hiring practices at this school certainly like IB experience, but it's not a requirement.

So, it's interesting that all 4 IB schools were very different to each other, the school doing the most IB (only IB) was the least IB in practices (esp Leadership practices), yet the school offering the widest range of curricula was the most IB.

To further demonstrate the point: I worked at 2 government schools in my national system that were far more "IB" than schools 1,3 & 4 above, yet neither of these schools had barely heard of IB. Both schools were offering UK national curriculum, but they managed to be very "IB" in the school values, ways of working, expectations etc without it being labelled as IB. After all, IB was developed from the work of Kurt Hahn at Gordonstoun in Scotland, and the Atlantic College in Wales. - those values are available to all educators regardless of the curriculum stamp on the schemes of work.
by Philzim
Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:43 am
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: DP experience > MYP ?
Replies: 14
Views: 21231

Re: DP experience > MYP ?

MYP and DP are rather different beasts, as I'm sure you know. As DP is 'content based' it's easier for teachers crossing curricula to pick up and deliver. A Level & AP teachers can deliver DP with very little extra training. However, MYP's concept based inquiry led structure takes a bit more getting used to for most teachers coming from content led curricula, esp those coming from the UK system of Key Stages & IGCSE. Therefore, despite there being fewer MYP schools than DP schools there are also fewer 'MYP ready' teachers competing for jobs. Further, in my experience candidates who have taught MYP have a good understanding of what IB want us to do with DP, they know how to talk the IB-talk and walk the IB-walk. On the other hand, DP teachers can (largely) get away with being more siloed-subject led practitioners. All in all - I think that the relative value of that MYP experience is greater than the relative value of DP experience. Of course, that's not to say that you shouldn't try to get DP experience etc etc, it's just that if you're applying for a G6-12 job in a tier 1 IB through school it is more likely that the MYP experience will get you over the line than any DP experience.
by Philzim
Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:18 am
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: IB vs The Rest
Replies: 39
Views: 110358

Re: IB vs The Rest

IB schools are looking for good teachers just like any other schools, I'm not sure why there is a perception that IB schools are more difficult to get a job in than other schools. Doing recruitment in 2 IB schools we assumed that a good teacher would be able to pick IB up just like any other curriculum. I was always much more interested in the teachers values and skills than I was in their "IB knowledge".

There's no reason why it should be harder for you to return to a national system (eg UK, US, Can) after working in IB, many colleagues have ping ponged back & forth over the years. In some cases your IB experience is a positive advantage for getting back into a national system, esp. if it's a role focused on concept based inquiry, service learning, critical thinking etc.

I'm not so sure about the comments re. IB being a "cult", or being all about the lingo. I left my national system after 12 yrs as a VP, and have now worked in IB curriculum for 18 yrs (also up to VP level). I really enjoy the IB system, when it's done well it's incredibly powerful. I don't consider myself a "cheerleader" for IB, I know of the drawbacks & deficiencies, I just think it's the best curriculum out there.
by Philzim
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:21 am
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: Countries and Schools not accepting Teachers with Families.
Replies: 11
Views: 12988

Re: Countries and Schools not accepting Teachers with Families.

We brought teachers with families into Thailand last year with no problems, and we expect to do the same again this year. Thailand is a very pro-family culture.
by Philzim
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:49 am
Forum: Forum 2. Ask Recruiting Questions, Share Information. What's on Your Mind?
Topic: THAILAND/VIETNAM : Chances of getting hired in our current situation?
Replies: 6
Views: 21918

Re: THAILAND/VIETNAM : Chances of getting hired in our current situation?

"A teacher told me that a top tier school in Thailand had to hire an unqualified teacher because it was impossible to hire from overseas."

I'm very surprised to hear this. All of the BKK schools, that I know of, have hired qualified teachers from overseas this year, hiring from overseas doesn't seem to be a huge issue. Sure they'll probably have to do quarantine, but this is probably going to be for a shorter period of time than those teachers who joined us in Aug 2020 (who did the full 15 day ASQ).

I don't know what type of school in Thailand you would be employed at without NQT. At a CIS accredited school I'm fairly sure that they would want at least a couple of years experience. Any of the top 10 schools in BKK have very few problems hiring people with good experience.

My advice would be to get NQT+ 2 yrs in the UK, and then look to move overseas. With 3 yrs of qualified experience you will have a better choice of schools. More importantly you will have sufficient UK experience to bring perspective to the international sector, perspective is oh so crucial when you're working in an IS.
by Philzim
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:51 pm
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: Bangkok & London 2020
Replies: 10
Views: 21156

Re: Bangkok & London 2020

Helen Back wrote:
> Bangkok went well for us. We got eight interviews during sign up and
> probably could have got more. We got offers from one of our two top
> choices, so very happy. We had previously applied to most of those schools
> and heard nothing. It all happened at the sign up. This was our first fair.
> Hard work, but it did the job. Neither of us teaches a shortage subject.

I'm not sure whether the above post refers to posts actually in BKK, but I thought it might be useful to let people know the situation in the city at the moment. There are so many schools opening up in BKK that good candidates are in a really strong position at the moment. Colleagues who have experience, and demonstrated strong values, have their pick of the BKK schools this year (and probably for the next couple of years). Lots of people want to come to BKK, but not so many have the quality experience & skills that the schools are looking for, those people tend to be tempted away by the big bucks in HKG & SIN.
by Philzim
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:44 pm
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: Why has recruiting become such a Gong Show?
Replies: 8
Views: 17849

Re: Why has recruiting become such a Gong Show?

I still don't understand the whole recruitment fair thing. Year after year we go to them(as recruiters) because we feel we have to, because we fear that the best candidates might be at the fair. At the end of each recruiting season we find that our best new hires came from direct applications from the school website, or from our network (through IB contacts, or Linkedin, etc). We vow to cry off the fairs next year, but inevitably we return - alas to no avail. This year we tried GRC, which was better than ISS, gave us a couple of good new colleagues. ISS BKK was sparse..., Sure, there are lots of candidates, but there are just not that many who have strong IB understanding + IB values + IB experience. Other schools are looking for other things.., diversity is strength etc etc.
by Philzim
Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:35 pm
Forum: Forum 1. From Questions About ISS & Search to Anything and Everything About International Teaching
Topic: The Job Search is Not Going Well...
Replies: 13
Views: 28418

Re: The Job Search is Not Going Well...

Speaking from a school in BKK (we're just finishing up recruiting for this year) - my advice is get more experience , preferably in the public school system in The States. 2 years experience is just not enough for our school for most positions. If you were to take high school classes we'd want you to have taken at least a couple of cohorts through to exam before joining us. Secondly, play down that ESL experience, imo it doesn't play particularly well in good Bangkok schools. ESL says to me - "wants to travel first, and teaching is just a means to that end". This may be completely unfair, but if it is then ESL needs to be counterbalanced with demonstrated commitment to pedagogy in classroom - such as 6+ years in a government school classroom, preferably in your home country.