Hey guys. When applying for a QTS, which subject should people with a U.S. license with a Social Studies endorsement apply for? History… Social Sciences…both?

@thames pirate

Sorry, they do offer a diploma program too. So goes until 12th. My mistake. Also, it’s not Phorms. Yes, in Bavaria.

My guess is they are missing something on their end. Or they’re being told wrong info by their visa department people.

@thames pirate

So I don’t think they’re a publicly funded school. The only curriculum they have listed on their website is IB PYP and MYP. I could be missing something, but yeah just the information I’m getting from them is they need a BA in the subject I’d teach in addition to a license in order to get a visa for me. Do you have any idea what government agency I could reach out to confirm or deny that? I’m a little dismayed here about applying to other jobs in Germany.

@thames pirate @psyguy

I heard back from about the reasoning. Apparently the school said they weren’t able to get a visa for a teacher that didn’t do their first degree in the subject they’re going to teach, regardless if they had a license to teach it. Is this a thing? Like say someone had bachelors in Business and had a license to teach math, are they not able to get a visa in Germany because the bachelors isn’t specifically in Math?

Thanks for all the information guys. If anything, this debate between you too has provided a lot of information on this topic for other people who come across the same issue.

@Thames Pirate
Do you know which state in Germany has the most simplified process to be recognized? And, is it even feasible to do any of this while outside of the country?

@thamespirate

I thought that I couldn’t get my qualifications recognized if they are from a country outside Europe. At least that’s what I understood from this website https://verwaltung.bund.de/leistungsver ... /region/09.

My degrees and license are from America.

Thames Pirate wrote:
> Ugh, once again PsyGuy is going off on random tangents and doesn't actually
> know much about the subject.
>
> In Germany, there are different types of schools, and these get different
> levels of funding and have to follow different rules.
>
> Most international schools are what is called Ergänzungsschule, meaning
> they offer something different from the regular schools and get less
> funding (but, contrary to PsyGuy's assertion, they DO get funding). A few
> are what is called Ersatzschule, meaning they have to follow the state
> curriculum (in general terms) and calendar. However, they get a lot more
> federal funding--on par with a public school. A school can even be
> mixed--an Ersatzschule for certain grades and an Ergänzungsschule for
> others (often for the IBDP). And if it is a Gymnasium, it is not an
> international school, but a local school and would thus fall under those
> rules. There is no such thing as an "IS at a Gymnasium level" as
> such--any IS offering a diploma, whether IB or otherwise, is essentially at
> "Gymnasium level." What a German university accepts may depend
> on the school and the courses, just as with any foreign high school
> diploma, including the IB DP.
>
> If the school is the Ergänzungsschule--and the major international schools
> all are--then it is up to the school what qualifications they will require.
> If it is an Ersatzschule, the school is beholden to the Bundesland.
> Germany has a federal system, so an Ersatzschule will have different
> requirements based on its location. One would likely need to have a
> credential recognised; however, the difficulty of this process AND the
> level of support from the school can vary. Some schools require you to do
> all the paperwork yourself, and the states vary wildly on how easy it is to
> get a foreign credential recognised (varying from "fill out this
> form" to "German bureaucracy is where you go to die"
> depending also on your country of origin, degrees, etc). Other schools
> have a process run through the school, and you may have someone from a
> ministry come and observe your lessons and look over your lesson plans. A
> hassle, but not a huge one. But the ministry may be tough on which degrees
> you need before they will do said visit.
>
> If a school told you that your degrees didn't qualify you, they are likely
> an Ersatzschule and having to abide by ministry standards. I have known
> people who taught the IBDP in one subject, but were not permitted to teach
> it at the lower levels because of the ministry restrictions and such. It
> DEFINITELY depends on the Bundesland. That's probably what happened in
> your case. But given the quality of the Ersatzschulen I have known, you
> probably dodged a bullet.
>
> If you really want to teach there, move to Germany, get your credential
> recognised yourself (might be more accessible than the school's process
> primarily due to the teacher shortages in Germany), and then apply. You
> can do that through the KMK in Germany.

A school I applied to told me my degrees and licenses didn’t qualify me to teach a specific subject in Germany. Even though my bachelors is not in the subject, it’s in a related subject and I have a U.S. teaching license with an endorsement for the subject I was applying to teach. I had an interview with them and they seemed to like me, they said they’d check my degrees and follow up with a second interview. I got that response back which made it seem like it was out of their hands, like an outside agency made the decision. Asked for more details, but no response.

Does the German ministry of education have to recognize my qualifications in order for me to teach at an international school in Germany, or is it simply up to the individual school whether or not they think my qualifications match the position?

@psyguy

As expected, my application was declined and I was told my experience needed to be after being credentialed in order to get a QTS. So I’m just going to wait the 20 months to transfer and get my full QTS.

@psyguy

I'm surprised to hear I can use experience before getting my credential because the QTS application forms seemed to specifically state otherwise. Anyway, I applied so I guess I'll know the answer soon enough.

@payguy
I guess so. I was wondering, for QTS, doesn’t the teaching experience requirement only count teaching experience after getting the license you’re trying to transfer? Do I have to wait 20 months in order to successfully apply?

Another option I thought of in the short term was applying to get a Missouri license because they have full reciprocity and a lifetime credential.

@psyguy

Just wanted to give an update. I was able to get a subject matter expert license in my subject area from Arizona. The license had an allowable deficiency for the NES Assessment of Professional Knowledge:Secondary which I would’ve had to pass in two years.

I then was successful is transferring that license to Mississippi, and I was given a SEL (Standard Educator License) in my subject area with no deficiencies or provisions. I’m able to add endorsements freely as well, providing I complete coursework or pass that subject’s praxis exam.

So this was a successful path for me. It may or may not work for others. For example, this path probably won’t work for non-American teachers. I’m thankful I didn’t have to take any tests for this license since they stress me out so much.

An update. I’m still in the process of applying for my Arizona license, but I found another simpler path that I’m going for first. In Arizona, they have something called “subject matter expert” standard license. For this, all you need is a degree in a related subject and to pass the professional knowledge test within two years after receiving the license. The only caveat with this license is that you can’t add anything on to the license apart from ESL or special needs endorsements. Otherwise it lasts 12 years and allows you to teach the same as if you had a secondary teaching license. I have a degree in communications so I’ll get my credential for Journalism first and after I pass my professional knowledge test I’ll look at getting the secondary license for ELA.

@psyguy

So I specifically asked the representative if I could use my foreign teaching experience and she said yes but I couldn’t use it to exempt myself from having to take the exams. I also asked if it mattered that my bachelors was not in English, and she said no. She said to send my masters transcripts and if there are any education courses I still have to take she’ll let me know. So it sounds like that no foreign teaching experience accepted is only for being able to wave the exams. It also says so on the website. https://www.azed.gov/node/27084

@psyguy

I actually ended up calling the Arizona Department of Education and they told me that I could get my certification in my situation. I just have to send them my transcripts and get my school to sign a paper saying I’ve been teaching English for at least two years, and then take some exams and get fingerprints done. I think they require me to take the ELA exam first for being able to teach ESOL. But I have to call to ask more information.