The International Schools Review Forum

Hi everyone.
I am currently a school COUNSELOR with a degree in Psychology and Counseling (MSc) from UK and I am BACP accredited. I don't have any teaching qualification.

I have been applying to a lot of different schools around Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines) unfortunately no offer has been made. In a lot of interviews they have asked me if I have any teaching certificate, qualification. Which I do NOT have, and I thought this is not a requirement for my position either.

Until I have had an interview with one school in Taiwan and they told me the teaching cert is not required, however the process for obtaining visa is much easier when I have it. Hence, my question is, if I apply for counseling positions in Asia (especially the countries mentioned above), would I be more attractive candidate if I had a teaching certificate? Maybe someone from recruitment from Asia could give me any insight into this? Thank you

First, its not a requirement, unless someone says its a requirement. A lot of things in IE arent required, but either facilitate the issuance of a visa or permit by the MOE for pro.edu. appointments. So an IS isnt required to provide evidence of a credential but if it significantly increases the likelihood of a visa or permit being issued than many ISs wont bother to try if they have other available options (other candidates who would be easier).

Second, in IE we have certificates, qualifications, credentials, and licenses. Your degrees are qualifications and your BACP membership licenses you to provide edu support services in the UK (even though its more a credential than a license). What you are asking about and what these ISs have indicated to you would provide value to your application is a credential (or if you appeal to the inverse position, you have a credential but need a license). Regardless, this is a three piece puzzle and your missing one of the pieces.

In US DOEs (the regulating authority) pro.edu credentials are issued for the role of Sch. Coun., this is what these ISs are referring to. It would be very difficult for you to obtain one of these, but if all youre concerned about is obtaining a credential in anything to facilitate the obtainment of a visa that is a lot easier to do. You first need to determine what it is you are looking for. On one end of the continuum you have certificates from ACSI and ABCTE for example that are basically pretty pieces of paper. ABCTE will run about USD$2K and ACSI about USD$100. These arent credentials, they are certificates, but some ISs will accept them and applicants have been successful in the past.
In the middle of the spectrum you have state DOE credentials and while a Sch. Coun. credential would take a lot of work, there are instructional (teacher) credentials. A popular option for non US residents is MA (Massachusetts). They offer a Provisional (Entry grade) credential that can be obtained through an assessment pathway (you take some pro.edu exams and submit an application). This credential would effectively be a lifetime credential and require no PD. It would cost you a few hundred USD and take a couple of months.
On the other end of the spectrum you have EPP/ITT programs that will provide you a credential. The best option (there are many) would be for you to find an online program offering you iQTS, and then transitioning that into QTS and using that for your applications (even as an ECT you wont have to do anything in the way of PD or renewal). Within this sphere, a niche option would be to pursue the Sunderland PGCEi which can be used to obtain HK Registered edu (Standard grade) status, and then use that to apply for QTS, it would cost about £10K (you could also seek certification through the Hong Kong Professional Counseling Association, HKPCA). Another option would be to obtain QTS through the AO route (TES would cost about £3K). This takes about 2-3 months. Yes another option would be to gain QTLS through SET possibly.

Hello, thank you so much for such detailed answer. I’ve been looking closely into all the possibilities over the summer. From what I’ve found Massachusetts unfortunately changed the regulations and it’s not possible to obtain the teaching license easily. I have however found that I could apply for a provisional teaching licence in Arizona. I won’t be able to complete all the requirements for full licence in this hiring season. However, would provisional teaching licence be sufficient for easier visa applications?

Alternatively I have also found out that I would qualify for school counselor licence in Florida and there are chances I might meet all the requirements before the new academic year starts.

Do you have any information if these would ease the visa process application and make more “easy” candidate to hire?

Thank you for all the help! I really appriciate it

PsyGuy wrote:
> First, its not a requirement, unless someone says its a requirement. A lot
> of things in IE arent required, but either facilitate the issuance of a
> visa or permit by the MOE for pro.edu. appointments. So an IS isnt required
> to provide evidence of a credential but if it significantly increases the
> likelihood of a visa or permit being issued than many ISs wont bother to
> try if they have other available options (other candidates who would be
> easier).
>
> Second, in IE we have certificates, qualifications, credentials, and
> licenses. Your degrees are qualifications and your BACP membership licenses
> you to provide edu support services in the UK (even though its more a
> credential than a license). What you are asking about and what these ISs
> have indicated to you would provide value to your application is a
> credential (or if you appeal to the inverse position, you have a credential
> but need a license). Regardless, this is a three piece puzzle and your
> missing one of the pieces.
>
> In US DOEs (the regulating authority) pro.edu credentials are issued for
> the role of Sch. Coun., this is what these ISs are referring to. It would
> be very difficult for you to obtain one of these, but if all youre
> concerned about is obtaining a credential in anything to facilitate the
> obtainment of a visa that is a lot easier to do. You first need to
> determine what it is you are looking for. On one end of the continuum you
> have certificates from ACSI and ABCTE for example that are basically pretty
> pieces of paper. ABCTE will run about USD$2K and ACSI about USD$100. These
> arent credentials, they are certificates, but some ISs will accept them and
> applicants have been successful in the past.
> In the middle of the spectrum you have state DOE credentials and while a
> Sch. Coun. credential would take a lot of work, there are instructional
> (teacher) credentials. A popular option for non US residents is MA
> (Massachusetts). They offer a Provisional (Entry grade) credential that can
> be obtained through an assessment pathway (you take some pro.edu exams and
> submit an application). This credential would effectively be a lifetime
> credential and require no PD. It would cost you a few hundred USD and take
> a couple of months.
> On the other end of the spectrum you have EPP/ITT programs that will
> provide you a credential. The best option (there are many) would be for you
> to find an online program offering you iQTS, and then transitioning that
> into QTS and using that for your applications (even as an ECT you wont have
> to do anything in the way of PD or renewal). Within this sphere, a niche
> option would be to pursue the Sunderland PGCEi which can be used to obtain
> HK Registered edu (Standard grade) status, and then use that to apply for
> QTS, it would cost about £10K (you could also seek certification through
> the Hong Kong Professional Counseling Association, HKPCA). Another option
> would be to obtain QTS through the AO route (TES would cost about £3K).
> This takes about 2-3 months. Yes another option would be to gain QTLS
> through SET possibly.

@Akabana

What changes to what are you talking about? The MA Provisional (Entry Grade) credential in History/Social Science (which includes psychology) for example requires the communication literacy (and English language test), the History/Social Science exam, and a bachelors/first degree.

I dont know what Provisional credential in AZ you are referring to, maybe you are referring to the Subject Matter Expert Certificate. Its a dice roll if that would work for you and if it does you will some difficult deficiencies to complete compared to having to do nothing for the MA credential.

I dont see how any of the FL pathways would work for you. The only viable IE credential would be the Professional one and it requires an EPP/ITT program, the temporary credential only works if you teach in FL, a LEA in FL has to sponsor the credential.

Generally yes any of them would have varying degrees of efficacy, depending on the IS and the various regional or national ministry of labor, immigration, and/or edu if its acceptable.

It seems like youre less interested in getting just a credential and more focused on a easy pathway to a Sch.Coun. credential, I dont blame you, there just arent any easy ones in the US system that are actual pro. edu. credentials. If you find one though and it works let us know.

Thanks again for your detailed explanation — it really helped me frame the options. I dug into the current rules and I’d love your take on the following summary and which route you’d pick in my situation.

My background: BSc Psychology (BPS-accredited), MSc Counselling & Psychotherapy (UK), full-time work as a school counselor in international schools. No teaching license yet.

Florida – School Counselor (PK–12)
Florida issues a professional educator certificate specifically in School Counseling. Under Plan Two I appear close: I have the counseling master’s and supervised experience; I may need to show the 600 supervised hours as internship and possibly add 1 grad course in college & career planning to hit the 9 required credits across appraisal/career/organization-consultation. Then pass FTCE School Counseling (018) (and PET if my SOE lists it).
• Rule 6A-4.0181: https://www.fldoe.org/teaching/certific ... -0181.stml
• FTCE exams: http://www.fl.nesinc.com
• Apply / SOE: https://flcertify.fldoe.org

Massachusetts – Provisional Teacher
MA still allows a Provisional teacher license with degree + MTEL Communication & Literacy + a subject MTEL (no educator-prep program required). It’s valid for 5 years of employment and can help with hiring/visa because it’s a state teaching credential.
• License types: https://www.doe.mass.edu/licensure/acad ... types.html
• MTEL: https://www.mtel.nesinc.com

Arizona – Teaching certificates
From what I can tell, AZ’s paths aren’t immediate fits unless I add more:
• Alternative Teaching Certificate requires enrollment in a Board-approved EPP while teaching: https://www.azed.gov/educator-certifica ... ertificate
• Foreign/International Teacher is for candidates who already completed a foreign teacher-prep program and are typically on J-1/Q-1 visas; comparable-prep language is in R7-2-614: https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations ... S-R7-2-614

Hiring/visa angle (Asia): My goal is to be a stronger, “easier” hire for counseling roles. It seems either a full FL School Counselor certificate (role-aligned) or a quick MA Provisional teaching license (broad educator credential) would both help with visa processing and recruiter confidence. AZ looks viable later, but needs EPP enrollment or prior teacher-prep.

Question for you: Given this, which route would you prioritize to maximize visa acceptability and offers for international schools —
1. Florida full School Counselor (PK–12) (finish any missing course + FTCE 018), or
2. Massachusetts Provisional teacher (degree + two MTELs) for the fastest “paper in hand”?

Anything I’m missing? I’d really value your view on which credential tends to carry more weight with HR/MOE desks across Thailand/Indonesia/Malaysia/ China/Japan/Korea/SE Asia.



PsyGuy wrote:
> @Akabana
>
> What changes to what are you talking about? The MA Provisional (Entry
> Grade) credential in History/Social Science (which includes psychology) for
> example requires the communication literacy (and English language test),
> the History/Social Science exam, and a bachelors/first degree.
>
> I dont know what Provisional credential in AZ you are referring to, maybe
> you are referring to the Subject Matter Expert Certificate. Its a dice roll
> if that would work for you and if it does you will some difficult
> deficiencies to complete compared to having to do nothing for the MA
> credential.
>
> I dont see how any of the FL pathways would work for you. The only viable
> IE credential would be the Professional one and it requires an EPP/ITT
> program, the temporary credential only works if you teach in FL, a LEA in
> FL has to sponsor the credential.
>
> Generally yes any of them would have varying degrees of efficacy, depending
> on the IS and the various regional or national ministry of labor,
> immigration, and/or edu if its acceptable.
>
> It seems like youre less interested in getting just a credential and more
> focused on a easy pathway to a Sch.Coun. credential, I dont blame you,
> there just arent any easy ones in the US system that are actual pro. edu.
> credentials. If you find one though and it works let us know.

@Akabana

Inquiries:
1) Are you a UK or US citizen, or if a non-US citizen or in possession of PR do you have a US SS# (Social Security Number)?

2) Your B.Sc, is it an integrated degree with your M.Sc, is it a three year or four year bachelors/first degree?

3) In MA which credentialing exam would you pursue?

4) Have you completed a transcript evaluation of your academics? Has the FL DOE reviewed and confirmed that your internship hours would be acceptable and have they confirmed that your academics meet two of the three course requirements, or is it just you think so?

If you have only the standard three year bachelors/first degree as evaluated by a credential evaluation service youre not likely to meet the requirements of any of the three programs you identified. Id recommend SpanTran (TEC) as they tend to take a broader approach to foreign academic evaluations.

If you do not have a US SS# you can not obtain a FL credential. You will need a SS# to register for the FTCE (they do not accept alternatives).
You would have to have a counselor position in FL to qualify for the plan two FL Sch.Cou. credential. Its an experiential (mentorship) pathway and had you read further youd see in subsection three:
"3) Applicants using Plan Two shall submit verification from the employing school district to attest that a school counselor with a state-issued professional certificate as specified in Rule 6A-4.004, F.A.C., will be assigned as the applicant’s mentor during the first two (2) years of employment as a school counselor.".

You cant meet that requirement outside of FL.

The AZ credential I was referring to is the Subject Matter Expert Credential. You can find it here.

https://www.azed.gov/educator-certifica ... icate-6-12

Your degrees may (the three vs. four year degree may matter) meet the requirements and you can postpone the deficiencies (the pro. edu. exam, and the ethics requirement) for two years.
There is both an online option for the Ethics requirement (a four hour NASDTEC course) and various teaching exam options including the PRAXIS which are available globally.

It looks easier than the MA provisional pathway because you can delay exams (which have issues as described below) but unlike MA you have to complete a CRB for AZ, which will require you to get finger print cards in the mail, be fingerprinted, and then mail those back and wait for them to be processed which will take months. The MA DOE doesnt do that.

The other issue is that while you can take comparable exams the Subject Matter Expert Credential may require a SSN# and congruent possession of US citizenship, PR, or an appropriate visa. Though AZ is more likely to accept a three year bachelors/first degree.

While AZ would accept your psychology field of study towards the social studies credential. MA would require a subject mater exam, and they dont have a psychology or social science exclusive credential or exam. If that was your selection youd be looking at a history/social studies exam thats about 20% social sciences but the rest is world history, US history, civics/poli.sci., and economics. I have no doubt youd be okay on the social science (psyc. and soc.) but what do you know of the others, especially US history and US civics? You may need to look at an alternative depending what your strengths are: some suggestions would be:
1) Middle School Humanities: A very broad area of social studies and literature but at the lower secondary level, even though it still contains US specific content.
2) Middle School Science and Math: Pretty much universal concepts and if you can handle some lite algebra for the math theres nothing too difficult here that someone who passed their GCSEs shouldnt be able to figure out.
3) ESOL: Depends how much you know about teaching meds/peds/asst rather than language ability, but an ESOL book for idiots/dummys may get you by. This area unlike the middle school areas above has a much broader range since you can use the same test to apply for both the secondary and primary credentials giving you an all-levels K12/KS credential.

If you cant handle those testing requirements than you could still potentially obtain an executive leadership credential (MA Provisional Administrator, Superintendent/Assistant Superintendent) credential, assuming you can pass the literacy exam and have three years of IE experience you can document. That would still get you a pro. edu. credential (and Sch. Cou. is a essentially a student management position).

MA doesnt require a SS# they issue credentials to foreigners and will issue you an MEPID on request to use for their system.
You still may have the three vs. four year bachelors/first degree issue.
The MA Provisional credential is valid for 5 years of employment but thats specifically employment in MA, which doesnt apply to you. The credential would be an effective lifetime credential requiring no PD or renewal.

First, is getting a foreign credential evaluation done (SpanTran/TEC). If it comes back your bachelors/first degree is equivalent to a four year degree than you can look at the next step:

Second, I dont see how you can get the FL Sch.Cou. credential, paper in hand.

Third, figuring out what you know and what exams you can pass. Thats going to dictate what pathway you move forward with.

Fourth, if you cant pass anything then you might have to look at other options in the pro.edu. area such as AO or iQTS, or non-pro.edu. options like ACSI (though while this might improve your hiring and recruiting options it may not).