Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

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simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

To keep this short I will state my goal, and say where I am now. I've done some searching but haven't found this combination. I've been teaching in Vietnam for 6 years, and have a ICT background prior to this. I'm now 47, but wish to develop a Plan B (or a new Plan A at least). If you have any experience with this then please drop me a line.

Have:
BSc Hons (IT) (1994)
MSc (Geographic Information Systems - also technical - from 2015)
CELTA (basic English teaching to adults certificate)
I'm an IELTS examiner in Hanoi
I teach specialised IELTS classes
Spent 3 years working at RMIT (Australian university) teaching Academic English in Hanoi
I have a Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning - also from RMIT in 2015)

Goal:
To teach computer science as a career teacher at an IB school (in Hanoi)

Questions:
1. I feel the weakest part is that I have a TERTIARY certificate - not a SECONDARY certificate. Is the best solution to organise an IB Teaching and Learning, as described here (http://www.ibo.org/en/professional-deve ... tificates/)? If so, which is the most useful program considering my background - Middle Years or Diploma Programme?
2. If the IB is a bit pointless / expensive, then how about a PGCEi from England? Any others I can do online?
3. I've read that experience is more important than any qualifications. All I have is 6 weeks at Singapore International School in Hanoi so I kind of know what I'm getting myself into. Is it better to try for a role at a similar 3rd tier(?) / 4th Tier(?) school and work my way up, or will I constantly bump into the no PGCE Secondary Cert issue?

Worst case would be to enroll on yet another course (e.g. PGCEi) only to be told I didn't need it after all.

DE
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

simplest2 wrote:
> To keep this short I will state my goal, and say where I am now. I've done
> some searching but haven't found this combination. I've been teaching in
> Vietnam for 6 years, and have a ICT background prior to this. I'm now 47,
> but wish to develop a Plan B (or a new Plan A at least). If you have any
> experience with this then please drop me a line.
>
> Have:
> BSc Hons (IT) (1994)
> MSc (Geographic Information Systems - also technical - from 2015)
> CELTA (basic English teaching to adults certificate)
> I'm an IELTS examiner in Hanoi
> I teach specialised IELTS classes
> Spent 3 years working at RMIT (Australian university) teaching Academic
> English in Hanoi
> I have a Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning - also from RMIT in
> 2015)
>
> Goal:
> To teach computer science as a career teacher at an IB school (in Hanoi)
>
> Questions:
> 1. I feel the weakest part is that I have a TERTIARY certificate - not a
> SECONDARY certificate. Is the best solution to organise an IB Teaching and
> Learning, as described here
> (http://www.ibo.org/en/professional-deve ... tificates/)?
> If so, which is the most useful program considering my background - Middle
> Years or Diploma Programme?
> 2. If the IB is a bit pointless / expensive, then how about a PGCEi from
> England? Any others I can do online?
> 3. I've read that experience is more important than any qualifications.
> All I have is 6 weeks at Singapore International School in Hanoi so I kind
> of know what I'm getting myself into. Is it better to try for a role at a
> similar 3rd tier(?) / 4th Tier(?) school and work my way up, or will I
> constantly bump into the no PGCE Secondary Cert issue?
>
> Worst case would be to enroll on yet another course (e.g. PGCEi) only to be
> told I didn't need it after all.
>
> DE

I'm not really that familiar with your credentials but I would agree that the chink in your candidacy seems to be that you do not have a secondary certificate/K-12 certification. The certification with qualifications to teach being granted in your home/some western country is generally the piece that most int'l schools will be looking for. That being said, tech related positions are sometimes given a bit more leeway in that area.

I have heard mixed things about the PGCEi with some people reporting getting good jobs at good jobs that as their main qualification while others have found that it limited their options.

I'm not really an expert (real or self-appointed) on alternative certifications but the many threads on the subject seem to point to Teacher Ready as a viable option for non-US citizens if you can find the required placement for your teaching experience. This thread had some good information:

http://internationalschoolsreview.com/v ... cher+ready

Since you have a very narrow goal as your dream gig, the question of whether you need any further qualification is a good one. The easiest way to find out (if you haven't already) is to apply to schools in the area and try to open a dialogue with the admin and/or HR people who could tell you what they are looking/require in their teaching candidates.

Maybe someone else will have other, more specific/useful for you (especially on the IB courses).
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

Some info there wrldtrvlr123 - cheers.

What I need to find out is the attitude of the international schools towards this tertiary qualification - so I have made one or two inquiries and will keep this thread posted. People with tertiary teaching and learning certificates (Western) may well be hanging out on a different forum - but if your out there - please get in touch. DE
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Your tertiary certificate means nothing. There are qualifications, credentials, and licenses. Your tertiary credential does not license you to provide K-12/KS instructional services. If it doesnt award you QTS or full registration than its not acceptable for accreditation purposes. Of course there are ISs that arent internationally accredited by an appropriate authority, and can truly accept whatever they want, but my experience is that if they will hire an IT based on nothing but a degree, than whether you have a a tertiary certificate or not isnt going to make much difference.
The real issue is your extremely restricted availability. Limiting yourself to a country, let alone city is begging for frustration in an appointment search.

There is a lot of debate over the validity of the IBO T&L certificates. At issue is the IBO a regulating authority? The IBO T&L certificates meet all the PD and training requirements for authorization of IB programs. If you have a classical IBO World School and no other program in the IS, if IB is the only curriculum you teach, than yes an IBO T&L certificate is acceptable. If you have an IS however that runs a dual program or has multiple accreditation than no the IBO T&L certificate isnt by itself acceptable.

DIP is far more valuable than MYP. IT in the MYP is part of the design curriculum. Its a lot easier for a DIP ICT IT to move down to MYP than an MYP ICT IT move up to DIP. MYP ICT is often either integrated or structured as an elective in the master schedule. The MYP curriculum has 8 instructional components and 50 hours is required in each components each year. Most ISs cant offer all 8 components every day, all year. They typically offer the core maths, science, language arts, social studies, and PHE then for electives; one fine art (music or visual art) and then design or FL during alternating terms. Sometimes PHE is also an elective, with some specific course the IS offers (though its rare that the specific course couldnt fall under one of the other categories). In DIP ICT is firmly in the science component of the sphere as Computer Science and Design Technology. In DIP every IT needs to be trained, in MYP only one member of the faculty needs to be trained in the subject area. It would be much easier for a DIP IT to teach MYP design, assuming someone in the IS is trained in MYP design.

I wouldnt say the IBO route is pointless, if its what your goal is, though it is very expensive, you would essentially be doing another Masters degree, and accept for a few programs you wouldnt be getting a domestic license. Since your goal is so specific you would just as easily meet the PD/certification requirements of the IBO by taking the Computer Science and/or Design level 1 workshops (Introduction). Your looking at about £600 and about a month online workshop or a weekend for a F2F workshop. The rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience however.

When it comes to alternative credentialing programs your best option depends mostly on what your access to a classroom is for your field experience:

1) Teach Now: Requires a 12 week field experience in an approved (accredited) classroom. This option is mostly for ITs who already have an appointment and are currently teaching. Its otherwise a very difficult position to ask for from a cooperating IS.

2) Teach Ready: Requires a 5 day field experience, this is easier to secure, but you still need an IS to let you into a classroom for a week. You however need to be a US Citizen as FL does not issue credentials to non citizens. It is possible however to take the FL letter of eligibility to CA if you meet the requirements for a CLEAR credential.

3) PGCEi: This is entirely an academic qualification, pseudo credential. There is no field experience requirement. Its fine for lower tier ISs, but you would meet substantial barriers if you wanted to pursue upper tier ISs, as you can not qualify directly for QTS with a PGCEi. You can however use the PGCEi to apply for the regular type 2 DC credential through transcript - and then use that to apply for full QTS as an OTT. However, you would likely be required to do substantial deficiency coursework in Computer Science before DC would issue you a credential.

The PGCEi appears to be the only credential you could qualify for unless you obtain a cooperating IS and they give you a classroom for 12 weeks.

The rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience. The PGCEi will likely allow you to move up, even as high as second tier in some regions, upper third tier in others, but your going to find yourself at the bottom of the pile at 1st tier ISs without QTS or full registration

Its possible you could get a NJ CE (certificate of eligibility) its a lifetime credential, that licenses you for K-12/KS instructional services, but youd never be able to take it further without relocating to the states, and even then youd end up with a 5 year non-renewable credential unless you became a US citizen.

Another possible option is finding an accredited IS (either without or with a PGCEi) and after 2 years of teaching you can apply for a CT (Connecticut) initial certification that with renewals is good for 18 years, you would however as above never be able to upgrade the certificate without relocating to the states.
You may want to consider moving into a junior leadership role as a technology coordinator/director of technology services, etc. You dont need a professional teaching qualification for that role as long as your not in a credit/unit earning classroom.
Adding applicable qualifications like Google Educator/Trainer or Apple Distinguished Educator (yeah right) or Apple Trainer. MS has a similar program but few ISs go into 1:1 programs using MS products/hardware.
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

Fabulous reply - much appreciated.

A couple of clarifications:
IBO T&L Certificates
"If you have a classical IBO World School and no other program in the IS, if IB is the only curriculum you teach, than yes an IBO T&L certificate is acceptable"
So if it were a pure British international IB school, then it would be considered as highly as a standard PGCE + QTS. i.e. Tier 1 is ultimately possible?
"Since your goal is so specific you would just as easily meet the PD/certification requirements of the IBO by taking the Computer Science and/or Design level 1 workshops (Introduction)."
Great info - I thought the programme was more a tailored PGCE, rather than a full masters?

DIP vs MYP
good comparison - my Tertiary learning certificate is for 18+ year olds (at Uni) - and teaching older kids my desire so wouldn't consider MYP anyway
When you mention the DIP ICT I assume you're talking about the newly updated (2014) IB Diploma Programme - Sciences: Computer science – Higher level course?

"The rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience. "
Well, you say that, but a Tier 1 (British) school won't interview you unless you have the right kind of PGCE and QTS!
The American system sounds just as complicated as the UK one, speaking of which, I understand Scotland has different rules regarding QTS - you can obtain it while teaching abroad? (After a PGDE?). How far would this get you at a Tier 1 school?
I've also heard that it's possible to do a PGCE in the UAE at one of the British schools, but my guess is it wouldn't lead to QTS.

Interesting tip about obtaining a non-teaching technical role. This might be able to be wrapped in a teaching English role (I have a CELTA and 5 years academic English teaching experience). Food for thought. A school may like the idea of an IELTS examiner for the kids who will need to do the exam in order to get on to teaching programmes in English teaching countries.

Once again, cheers for your time. DE
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@simplest2

Starting with the hard questions. Honestly thats a really long discussion thats a hot topic right now in IE. The issue is whats a regulatory authority, whats a license.
Looking at your question, im going to start with the position that "pure British international IB school" is a Cheshire Schrodinger's cat. It sounds reasonable, but that it really doesnt exist. There are BSs that deploy the IB curriculum across all grade levels, but the ethos of the BS is still very British. The IBness is the wizard behind the curtain. Its IB to ITs, leadership, staff that work with guidance documents, and marking schemes, and timelines, but to the outsiders including students the experience is that of a BS. The other side of the continuum, is an IB DS that is British in name only and is very much the epitome of what the IB envisions an IB DS/IS should look, feel, and be experienced by all stake holders. Its a mutually exclusive continuum that the more of one you are the less of the other you must be.

The other issue Im going to define so that I can provide you a response is that an IB T&L certificate for a strong IB PRACTITIONER in a single curriculum classic IB World IS/DS has equivalent marketability as a PGCE/QTS for a UKNC.
Is tier 1 possible yes, practical probability has low utility, for among several reasons, but primarily a 1st tier IS usually does not need to make such choices, they can and will get everything on their position description. The rarely need to resolve such issues.
Understand that the IB Leadership Certificates were designed to serve a sizable portion of educators in leadership, or transitioning to leadership that do not have any type of school management/lead/administration credential, many have a Masters/M.Ed in education as their sole leadership qualification. It is also not an insignificant number of leadership members who only have an undergraduate degree and classroom instruction credential.

IB T&L certificates are usually part of a Masters program that include a composition of coursework in international education. Some of them are C&I focused some are Ed.Ld focused.
IB workshops come in two forms. Online workshops are generally 3-6 weeks long and involve some collaboration and assignments/deliverables you submit typically each week.
F2F workshops are typically weekend long conferences, where (at level 1) you review what you learned during your EPP/ITT program. They are more for drill and kill/chalk and talk DTs who do not have a background in western meds/peds.

I realize your more comfortable with older adolescents, but MYP5 is 16 year olds, and there isnt much difference in maturity levels between the ages of 16 and 19. A small IS is likely going to need its secondary ITs to provide a diverse schedule, which will include lower secondary courses.

CSCI was moved from Maths to Experimental Science, in IE ICT includes both CSCI and Design Technology. while the specific of the CSCI requirements have become less specific to certain coding languages its still very much a maths intensive ana1ytical course. CSCI isnt very popular for HL exams, UNIs either wave the technology literacy requirement or give 1st year Intro to CSCI credit for the course, which has low utility when fulfilling general education elective courses and major specific per-requisite courses in other content exam areas.

That is generally true, but thats a range restricted example, 1st tier BSs can and do get everything they want. Aside from that issue the assumption when citing the rule is that an IT meets the minimum requirements for practice as a professional educator, including academic preparation and credentialing. IE.. An It asks which is more marketable a Masters degree or a classroom appointment in a third tier IS. The experience is far superior. The rule is usually quoted when the board is queried on the value of IB or AP training, etc.

Everyones system is convoluted on complex, the appearance of simplicity and efficiency is only valid when comparing the various systems to one another. try explaining EPP/ITT credentialing schemes and to someone not into education, and it takes about 5 minutes before their eyes start glossing over, doesnt matter the system.

You can gain full QTS and complete your induction year overseas at a BSO.
You can do a PGCE/PGDE in a lot of places, these are academic qualifications they dont generally lead to QTS.
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Reply

Post by simplest2 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @simplest2
>
> Starting with the hard questions. Honestly thats a really long discussion
> thats a hot topic right now in IE. The issue is whats a regulatory
> authority, whats a license.
> Looking at your question, im going to start with the position that
> "pure British international IB school" is a Cheshire
> Schrodinger's cat. It sounds reasonable, but that it really doesnt exist.
> There are BSs that deploy the IB curriculum across all grade levels, but
> the ethos of the BS is still very British. The IBness is the wizard behind
> the curtain. Its IB to ITs, leadership, staff that work with guidance
> documents, and marking schemes, and timelines, but to the outsiders
> including students the experience is that of a BS. The other side of the
> continuum, is an IB DS that is British in name only and is very much the
> epitome of what the IB envisions an IB DS/IS should look, feel, and be
> experienced by all stake holders. Its a mutually exclusive continuum that
> the more of one you are the less of the other you must be.
FORGIVE THE NON-SHOUTY CAPITALS - CAN YOU CONFIRM I HAVE ALL YOUR ACRONYMS NAILED DOWN:
IT's - INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY STAFF?
DS
IS - INDEPENDENT SCHOOL
>
> The other issue Im going to define so that I can provide you a response is
> that an IB T&L certificate for a strong IB PRACTITIONER in a single
> curriculum classic IB World IS/DS has equivalent marketability as a
> PGCE/QTS for a UKNC.
> Is tier 1 possible yes, practical probability has low utility, for among
> several reasons, but primarily a 1st tier IS usually does not need to make
> such choices, they can and will get everything on their position
> description. The rarely need to resolve such issues.
I THINK YOUR SAYING THAT A T&L CERT, IN A SPECIALISED SUBJECT (E.G. COMPUTER SCIENCE), IS ABOUT THE SAME IN MOST IB SCHOOL PRINCIPALS EYES AS A PGCE/QTS? YET DON'T YOU SAY ELSEWHERE IT'S JUST A GLORIFIED MASTERS?

> Understand that the IB Leadership Certificates were designed to serve a
> sizable portion of educators in leadership, or transitioning to leadership
> that do not have any type of school management/lead/administration
> credential, many have a Masters/M.Ed in education as their sole leadership
> qualification. It is also not an insignificant number of leadership members
> who only have an undergraduate degree and classroom instruction credential.
I THINK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LEADERSHIP QUALIFICATION HERE AS OPPOSED TO A T&L QUALIFICATION. I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED THIS THOUGH I MAY RESEARCH IT FURTHER - IT MIGHT BE AN EASIER TRANSITION FOR ME
>
>
> IB T&L certificates are usually part of a Masters program that include
> a composition of coursework in international education. Some of them are
> C&I focused some are Ed.Ld focused.
C&L?
ED.LD?
THE CLOSEST IB CERT CERTIFICATE OFFERED TO MY HANOI LOCATION IS KL, FAIRVIEW UNIVERSITY, A TEACHER TRAINING FACILITY ESTABLISHED 2012. THEY DON'T APPEAR TO DO COMPUTER SCIENCE HOWEVER. A CHAIN OF FAIRVIEW SCHOOLS OFFER PLACEMENTS. IB (FEVER) SEEMS TO HAVE GRIPPED THE WORLD!

> IB workshops come in two forms. Online workshops are generally 3-6 weeks
> long and involve some collaboration and assignments/deliverables you submit
> typically each week.
BUT I NEED TO BE WORKING IN A SCHOOL? CATCH 22?
> F2F workshops are typically weekend long conferences, where (at level 1)
> you review what you learned during your EPP/ITT program. They are more for
> drill and kill/chalk and talk DTs who do not have a background in western
> meds/peds.
I THINK YOU SAID A COMPUTER SCIENCE WORKSHOP IS JUST AS USEFUL AS AN IB T&L CERT. BUT DON'T I NEED THE CERT TO GET IN THE DOOR?
>
> I realize your more comfortable with older adolescents, but MYP5 is 16 year
> olds, and there isnt much difference in maturity levels between the ages of
> 16 and 19. A small IS is likely going to need its secondary ITs to provide
> a diverse schedule, which will include lower secondary courses.
IS IT NOT TRUE THAT A DIPLOMA TEACHER CAN ALWAYS MOVE DOWN, BUT AN MYP NOT UP? MYP IS 11-16 YEARS OLD - SO WOULDN'T I GET A MIX ACROSS ALL AGES (NOT JUST MYP5)?
>
> CSCI was moved from Maths to Experimental Science, in IE ICT includes both
> CSCI and Design Technology. while the specific of the CSCI requirements
> have become less specific to certain coding languages its still very much a
> maths intensive ana1ytical course. CSCI isnt very popular for HL exams,
> UNIs either wave the technology literacy requirement or give 1st year Intro
> to CSCI credit for the course, which has low utility when fulfilling
> general education elective courses and major specific per-requisite
> courses in other content exam areas.
I CAN DO DESIGN OR SOMETHING NON-COMPUTER SCIENCE IF THAT'S MORE POPULAR. MY BACKGROUND IS IT FIRST DEGREE, AND GIS MASTERS (MSC)
>
> That is generally true, but thats a range restricted example, 1st tier BSs
> can and do get everything they want. Aside from that issue the assumption
> when citing the rule is that an IT meets the minimum requirements for
> practice as a professional educator, including academic preparation and
> credentialing. IE.. An It asks which is more marketable a Masters degree or
> a classroom appointment in a third tier IS. The experience is far superior.
> The rule is usually quoted when the board is queried on the value of IB or
> AP training, etc.
AP TRAINING?
MY ONLY TEACHING EXPERIENCE IS 3 YEARS RMIT TEACHING ACADEMIC ENGLISH IN VIETNAM, AND 2 YEARS TEACHING (AND EXAMINING) IELTS STUDENTS IN A LANGUAGE SCHOOL - MAYBE A FINGERTIP IN THE DOOR OF A 3RD TIER SCHOOL IN OUTER MONGOLIA?
>
> Everyones system is convoluted on complex, the appearance of simplicity and
> efficiency is only valid when comparing the various systems to one another.
> try explaining EPP/ITT credentialing schemes and to someone not into
> education, and it takes about 5 minutes before their eyes start glossing
> over, doesnt matter the system.
:) - INDEED - ESPECIALLY FOR A IS NOOB. I TAUGHT AT SIS (HANOI) ON A SHORT TERM CONTRACT (6 WEEKS) SO I'VE HAD A TASTE THOUGH
>
> You can gain full QTS and complete your induction year overseas at a BSO.
BSO - BRITISH SCHOOL ORGANISATION? - BUT SURELY A SCHOOL WOULDN'T EMPLOY SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE QTS? I CAN RESEARCH THIS.

> You can do a PGCE/PGDE in a lot of places, these are academic
I THOUGHT THIS WAS THE PASSPORT TO THE QTS? - IF ONE TEACHES IN ENGLAND FOR A YEAR AFTERWARDS AT LEAST.
> qualifications they dont generally lead to QTS.
SO DO I NOT NEED SOME KIND OF SECONDARY TEACHING CERTIFICATE TO START QTS?

I HOPE YOU TAKE THIS REPLY IN GOOD HUMOUR BECAUSE IT IS A LOT LONGER THAN I EXPECTED!
DE
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

Just to add, PsyGuy, what I suppose What I'm asking is, from the starting point of what I have now, how can I potentially reach the furthest with the minimum investment (time and money). Last year I finished the wrong Masters (should have done Applied Linguistics) and the wrong Teaching and Learning Certificate (Tertiary instead of secondary). That was careless.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@simplest2

1) Definitions:
IT = International Teacher (ITs is plural, I dont believe in apostrophes).
DS = Domestic School
IS = International School

2) My point is that the issue of what credential makes an IT legal is subordinate to an ITs demonstrable success in the classroom. The issue of how to get certified is a common one on this forum, and many of those ITs are already in ISs, and they need or their leadership needs them credentialed so that they are legal. Leadership will go through a lot of grief and effort to keep an IT who is good at what they do and is a known quantity.

IB T&L certificates are typically part of a graduate masters program. Considering that the majority of the UNIs that offer these combined IB T&L programs and masters degrees are private UNIs, their tuition/fees is very high. In weighing the cost/benefit ana1ysis my position is that yes these programs are glorified masters programs. You will find MANY leadership with IB ISs and programs who A) Dont even know about the IB T&L certificates and/or B) Arent impressed, its still training, and no amount of training is worth any amount of experience. Spending 2 years getting a Masters and IB T&L certificate is 2 years the IT wasnt in a classroom, working their craft.

3) Yes, the IB also has a Leadership certificate/credential. The issue I was addressing is that for many ITs transitioning or in Leadership, a leadership credential is either not available in their HOR (Home of Record), or they wouldnt be eligible to obtain one. The IB Leadership certificates were designed to fill that need.

The IB Leadership certificates are the same level of work as a T&L certificate, both are integrated components of a Masters program. The T*L certificates have more utility than the Leadership certificate.

4) Definitions 2
C&I = Curriculum and Instruction
Ed.Ld = Education Leadership

Fairview has a somewhat unique program. You actually work for them in their IS and part of the comp package includes the Masters and T&L certificate program.

5) No, anyone can register and attend/participate in an IB Workshop. You can register through the IBO.

The IB contract/agreement with ISs requires PD/training for ITs to various standards. Completion of an IB level 1 (Introduction) workshop meets that PD/training requirement. An IB T&L certificate also meets the training requirement. The major difference is that in secondary (MYP/DIP) a workshop will meet the requirement in the subject of the workshop. An IB T&L certificate will meet any/all requirements for that IT. I have 40 credentials, it would be a lot of work and cost to complete workshop training for all of them, my IB T&L certificate satisfies the training/PR requirement for all of them. DIP requires each and every subject IT to be trained. MYP requires one IT in the department and subject area in the IS to be trained.
So yes the IB level 1 CSCI workshop certificate (17 contact hours) is as valid for successfully fulfilling the IB training/PD requirement as an IB T&L certificate.

6) Always no, its generally easier, but their are some issues. MYP is much more organic and holistic, and has a wider breadth of material over a much longer program. An MYP ICT IT may teach a variety of developmentally appropriate courses, where as a DIP CSCI is going to be much more specialized in meeting the objective standards of the course guide. Its much more algorithmic, and you just do it over and over again. Its essentially a 15/18 month test prep program.

It depends on the IS and how they are scheduled. It wouldnt be unreasonable for example to have year 9 and year 10 CSCI and Design Technology courses exclusively, potentially in a partial term format (an elective that is essentially 2-3 months long). Though you could have (especially in a small IS) years 6-10 in Design Technology/CSCI. Though its also possible that you could have all secondary grades 6-12 as well.

7) CSCI and Design Tech are often paired subjects. many smaller to moderate ISs want/need both.

8) AP = Advance Placement, an externally assessed program similar to a one year AS/A2 course provided by the College Board in the USA. They do have an International only Diploma option/program thats rarely seen in IE (International Education). ITs use an approved syllabus, and then students register to take the exam. If they achieve a high enough score they can use the course certificate towards UNI credit.

9) Definitions 3
BSO = British School Overseas, a British IS thats inspected by one of the Ofsted approved agencies.

Many "British" ISs are little more than local independent DSs that are offering some form of UKNC, mostly by virtue that the ITs employed of the IS were trained or studied in the UK.

Not true, IS do hire unqualified ITs, and many never complete induction and are career NQTs. This doesnt mean that ITs with full QTS are rare, just not as common (meaning everyone), as youd find in a maintained DS in the UK.

Many British ITs in my experience, either couldnt find stable appointments in the UK, or they were marginal DTs and the probability/fear of not successfully completing induction drove them out of the UK.

Well yes and no. Traditionally a UK PGCE includes NQT QTS, and you can then complete induction and receive full QTS. However, rules that were implemented recently extends QTS to a lot of DTs/ITs trained in the USA/CAN/AUS/NZ. You complete an online application and a letter of good standing with a credential from one of those 4 regions and you will be awarded full QTS. You could say do an American Alternative certification program (ACP) for 9 months through a program like Teach Now, which you can do at a foreign IS (globally any IS thats accredited and will hire you) get an American credential from the District of Columbia, and then immediately apply for and receive QTS, a 2 for 1 deal.

The other aspect is that a number of regions title their academic training completion certificate a "PGCE" or "PGDE", they have nothing to do with the UK PGCE and QTS, the particular region has just adapted the terminology used in the UK. You can get a PGDE in HK for example that will allow you to obtain full registration as a DT in HK. It has nothing to do with the UK PGCE or credentialing.

It could be secondary or primary, or career orientated. The UK credentialing system considers content proficiency a minor priority, do you have a degree in the teaching field? You meet the content proficiency requirements. A PGCE is very 'generic' it is certification in completion of meds/peds (methodology and pedagogy), it trains you how to teach, in so far as preparing a lesson, delivering it, and then assessing the effectiveness. Its not really concerned with the content material itself. QTS is also very generic every DT/IT is assessed against the same national teacher standards, and most of the assessor/leadership (management) very likely dont understand the various content fields well enough to know if your faking it or if you are a master of your subject.

10) In response to your amended post, at this point unless you have some opportunity in front of you, I would suggest that you just start applying, and determine what interest your resume will generate.
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

This is gold!!

"So yes the IB level 1 CSCI workshop certificate (17 contact hours) is as valid for successfully fulfilling the IB training/PD requirement as an IB T&L certificate"

"You could say do an American Alternative certification program (ACP) for 9 months through a program like Teach Now, which you can do at a foreign IS (globally any IS thats accredited and will hire you) get an American credential from the District of Columbia, and then immediately apply for and receive QTS, a 2 for 1 deal."

I have a distinction in TERTIARY Teaching and Learning Graduate Certificate from RMIT - so yes that is a teaching qualification, although your first sentence was that it's useless. I also looked into getting something at the British International School in Hanoi, but they want QTS, in common with all other British International schools they tell me, hence this whole discussion (how to make that happen). It seems that needing QTS is a serious over-simplification, particularly outside a British IS.

Massive thanks for all your time on this. DE
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by shadowjack »

Simplest - 1. Having a Tertiary EAL certificate is meaningless to an IS, whether British, American, IB or whatever. You seem to think that teaching college age students is the same as teaching MYP or DP students. It is not.

2. I would argue that teachers teaching only the DP have a harder time moving down than teachers teaching MYP do moving up. DP is way more prescribed and structured than MYP and a dedicated DP teacher has to create a lot more structure in the classroom if they do MYP rather than having the structure provided a la DP.

3. Having an IB level 1 workshop certificate gets you a certificate. However, it is pretty useless from a teaching viewpoint and is more about the philosophy of IB at the PYP, MYP, or DP level. It really has nothing to do with teaching your specific subject.

4. If you want to break into secondary education, find a school, do your year through Teach Now, get certified as an English teacher, and then get out on the job hustings.

Just my two halalas,

Shad
simplest2
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: Certificate in Tertiary Teaching and Learning from RMIT

Post by simplest2 »

shadowjack wrote:
> Simplest - 1. Having a Tertiary EAL certificate is meaningless to an IS,
> whether British, American, IB or whatever. You seem to think that teaching
> college age students is the same as teaching MYP or DP students. It is not.
Point.
>
> 2. I would argue that teachers teaching only the DP have a harder time
> moving down than teachers teaching MYP do moving up. DP is way more
> prescribed and structured than MYP and a dedicated DP teacher has to create
> a lot more structure in the classroom if they do MYP rather than having the
> structure provided a la DP.
Interesting.
>
> 3. Having an IB level 1 workshop certificate gets you a certificate.
> However, it is pretty useless from a teaching viewpoint and is more about
> the philosophy of IB at the PYP, MYP, or DP level. It really has nothing to
> do with teaching your specific subject.
I remember Psyguy saying it met the minimum entry requirements for a teaching appointment (in many schools?)
>
> 4. If you want to break into secondary education, find a school, do your
> year through Teach Now, get certified as an English teacher, and then get
> out on the job hustings.
I will find out about Teach Now. I have a friend teaching English at the British International School, and like me, he simply has a CELTA and a few years experience. For some reason English teaching is a separate case.
>
> Just my two halalas,
>
> Shad
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