The International Schools Review Forum

Hi,

so I have Master of Teaching (secondary), a teaching license, Bachelor of Accounting, 3 years of exp teaching Accounting and Business Management to Year 10 to 12 students in Melbourne, Australia. I will get IGCSE certificates for Business Studies and Mathematics this November.

Recently I've been invited to have an interview with RMIT HR in VN for Foundation Studies teacher position. In the best case scenario, they might offer me the job. My question is: Which one is better? Teaching business-related subjects in international schools (good ones) or at international university like RMIT?

Pay wise, I think international schools usually pay better. However, I heard that teaching at universities like RMIT usually is more chill and has better work/life balance.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. I'm not sure if I should wait until around Oct-Nov, when more ISs start advertising jobs, or should accept RMIT offer (if that's the case).

Also, would it help on my resume if I work for RMIT, in case I want to work for international schools in the future?

::looking around for @Sid::

It depends, how long is a piece of string?

The Foundations Studies [FS] at RMIT is an hourly wage position. What does that mean though and what is the coin for the wage? Wage based positions often pay more coin than comparable ISs at the entry level (low end) of an ISs salary scale, and they come with as you correctly identified a much better overall work life balance.

THE GOOD
Youre getting paid for every bit of time you spend on the job. Sitting in a meeting youre getting paid, working on marking/grading in your office youre getting paid, prepping lessons in the work room, youre getting paid, office hours youre getting paid, teaching youre getting paid. Youre classes will end on time, youre office hours will go so long and no more, meetings will be over at the appointed and designated time. You will be happily surprised at how efficient an IS can run when your time costs coin. This means when your not getting paid, youre not working. If you arent working you can do whatever without a thought to work tasks. That makes for a very nice situation in regards to work life balance.

THE BAD
Are there paid holidays? Likely not, that means your rate of pay and hours needs to be able to carry you through summers, holiday breaks, loss of hours, etc. This is a PT appointment but it might be high enough in hours at a high enough wage that its comparable to full time salary, and if not if its low enough in hours (such as 10-15 hours a week) than you can easily put together either additional PT work in ESOL or doing privates either in ESOL or tutoring (such as maths). You may be able (very easily) to use your classes as a revenue channel to identifying students for private tutoring, instruction. Thats going to effect that work life balance though.

THE UGLY
There is no OSH package. Its essentially an LH hire with some international medical and document assistance. There is no relocation (flights, allowances), housing, or other allowances/stipends. Even third tier ISs for expats provide an OSH package. Without one youre looking at half a years coin on average making up the relocation and living costs youd get with an OSH package.

The FS program is equivalent to a year 12 AUS K12/KS program. You can properly present it in your resume and spin it in interview as K12/KS experience that would count for IE. Thats probably; its PT work though and youre going to find ISs that wont consider it as FTE TOR IE/DE work.

If the option is working for RMIT now, or waiting a year and having one less year of experience when applying to IE, experience is king. If it means leaving the K12/KS DS youre currently at for this opportunity than your leaving absolutely countable K12/KS experience for something that is less than that.

Hi Psyguy,

Thank you so much for your insights!

I didn't know it's hourly wage position. You're correct. It is!

No I'm not leaving my current students right away. I already inform all of the schools I applied to that I will only be available by the end of this year. I want to see my students through their final exams in Australia, not hanging them dry.

Your - gives me lots of thoughts. I much prefer something more stable and with more allowances. I don't mind staying at school until 4pm even if I have nothing else to do. I can always do my marking or prepping during my free time so I don't have to do it at home.

After your insights, I might not take the job. I'd still go through the interview to see what they've got to offer.

Thanks again Psyguy. It helps a lot :)

@limitless_te

So much depends on the hours (both instruction and contact/contract) , the schedule and of course the coin for the wage.
Uni. programs like this the HOS (specifically the program director, or dean, etc.) typically (more common) have a lot of discretion over their budget. The majority of the allowances in an OSH package are one time benefits (shipping, shopping, settling in, document processing, etc.). Travel allowances (flights) are becoming more start and end of contract rather than annually (rarer), or per contract (still becoming less common). Housing is normally significant but Vietnam (including HCMC) has relatively low cost housing. You may be able to negotiate more of the compensation than you typically would for an IS. The HOS may have faculty (Panda) or general housing they can provide you as part of the compensation. You may also be able to negotiate some allowances, such as flights, and other relocation allowances.
My inclination is that if this IS is providing visa support even if its a technically PT it may be at a high enough wage and hours that its de-facto FTE to qualify for visa sponsorship. There are so many ways to structure this kind of appointment. You could find yourself with a job thats substantially less in hours than a typical IT and at close to a typical IT salary.

Hi Psyguy,

So I had an interview with them yesterday. They will respond in 2 weeks regarding whether I get to the second round.

The only information I get from the one interviewed me regarding the compensation is since this is hourly basis, I would not be treated as a full-time employee, and therefore no expat package offered (no housing allowance, no relocation allowance, no return tickets every year etc). They will cover the legal matters like applying for work permit and visa, flight ticket to VN (one way). The hourly rate for expat is around $3x USD/h. The full load would be 40h/week, IF I get the full load. But they said the working hours are very flexible, as in if I don't have class, I can leave. I will ask more if I get to the interview panel.

Still very tempting. How do you think I should negotiate for allowances?

Another thing that makes me wavering between working for RMIT and international schools is about the fee waiver for my children if I work at IS. Considering they often waive the fee for all 12 years, that's a huge benefit. Do you think working for RMIT on my resume can be beneficial if I plan to move to IS in the future?

@limitless_te

I would be very weary going forward, I dont think they are being entirely honest with you.

It sounds like the appointment really is FTE if it is or is close to 40hrs/wk., and they are using the wage aspect of the position as an excuse for not providing an OSH package. It would appear on face that they are claiming the position is FTE for visa purposes, but telling you it isnt as a rational for not providing an OSH package. It would be more honest of them to simply be straight with you and tell you its a LH FTE position.

USD$3x an hour is peasant coin. Especially since it seems like the only hours that are compensated are instructional hours. Meaning your not getting paid for preparation and marking/grading. Nor are you getting compensated for holidays or any other loss of hours. Now if your going to get USD$3x coin an hour and you get paid for 40hrs./wk. or close to it and a lot of that time is just contract time for preparation, advising, marking/grading, and the instructional hours are 10 or so hrs./wk. thats a pretty relaxed schedule and nice comp, especially if you can monetize a portion of those hours, essentially getting paid twice for the same time.

The schedule of those instructional hours matter. If they are all blocked together thats great, but if they are scattered throughout the day you cant do a whole lot being able to leave if you only have an hour or so between classes.

Allowances arent the problem. The problem is stability, as what you really need is a guarantee of a minimum number of hours.
When you get to the final interview which is really contract negotiation, ask for an actual FTE appointment with an OSH package and salary. You shouldnt really expect them to agree, thats not the point. The purpose is to set the anchor point for your expectations going forward that whatever wage you negotiate is going to have to account for all of those allowances they are not giving you. Add USD$5/hr. with a minimum 30hrs//wk. guarantee and over a month you will have the equivalent of a comfortable housing allowance. Add to that USD$5/hr. or add more hours beyond 30 and you can cover more expenses and allowances. The guarantee is what is the most important, because if you are on the upper end of ITs cost youre not going to get hours.
USD$39/hr. with 35 contract hrs./wk. and only 10hrs./wk. in instructional hours is a posh appointment and its still nice at even twice the instructional hours. If they arent willing to do that kind of contract and theres no minimum guarantee of hours, preparation and marking/grading isny paid, or the wage is on the low end of that USD$30/hr. than its something closer in the realm of substitute/supply teaching.

You can present the experience on your resume as IE experience and spin it at interview as countable, as its comparable to AUS year 12. The problem is going to be its upper secondary but its not SLL, and there wont be any external or recognizable exams and the curriculum may not be comparable to anything recognizable in IE. There will be some ISs that wont count the experience or wont count it in full. Its more adult general education for young adults with upper secondary content, than it is child K12/KS education. Many ISs in IE will accept it, but there will be some that wont.

Thank you Psyguy.

I have never thought about this negotiation this way. That's food for thoughts for sure.

Once again, I really appreciate it.

I'm getting IGCSE certificates in Business Studies and Economics this November, hoping to work at ISs in SG. If this RMIT nego doesn't go through, hope that helps :D