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Foreign Language Teachers out there?

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:33 pm
by FutureTeacher33
Hey,

I have posted here before and PsyGuy has been a TON of help-can't stress that enough. I have spoken with him in regards to getting my undergraduate degree in English or a foreign languge. I am really leaning towards the foreign language (based on what I have in mind for my long term goals) and just wondering if anyone here teaches a foreign language in an international school and wondering if you can give me your experience on how that has been for you?

Some other things I'm wondering is:
1. Has there been a decent amount of positions at job fairs?
2. Is the language your mother tounge?

And anything you can give me, again, will be helpful.

I am interested in French and know that I will need to fully immerse myself in the language to be truly fluent, so anything you can prove to me is appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:02 am
by Mathman
All foreign language teachers I have met are all native mother tongue speakers. Most with funny matching accented English to match. Remember that parents will be kinda annoyed if their kid spoke better than their 'teacher'. It's not just the language, it's the culture and values too(which come in for IB, and highly desired by native speaking parents) and those can't just be learned.

I'm just not sure it's a good path to pursue (career wise) since you aren't native. If you wanted, you could try teaching english in a French speaking african nation, and that could give you the immersion you are looking for.

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:08 pm
by FutureTeacher33
[quote="Mathman"]All foreign language teachers I have met are all native mother tongue speakers. Most with funny matching accented English to match. Remember that parents will be kinda annoyed if their kid spoke better than their 'teacher'. It's not just the language, it's the culture and values too(which come in for IB, and highly desired by native speaking parents) and those can't just be learned.

I'm just not sure it's a good path to pursue (career wise) since you aren't native. If you wanted, you could try teaching english in a French speaking african nation, and that could give you the immersion you are looking for.[/quote]

Thanks for your response!

I really do like to get different answers for my teaching questions, so it's appreciated.

I actually just spoke with a teacher who is teaching in Eastern Europe in an International School, from her experiences, she said that the school has language teachers who are American and it's not their native tounge. She felt confident that I could secure a position, especially in a bigger school.

So far, I have 2 different feedbacks from different people in the international circuit.

Anyone else have any helpful info?
I really appreciate it!

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:53 pm
by Eric
At all the international schools I've worked at, all the language teachers were native speakers. Even in remote schools, the French teachers were always from France.

Addition

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:18 pm
by PsyGuy
In addition to what I've written in the past, there are a handful of foreign language teacher vacancies each year. Each year there seem to be about 4-6 French teaching vacancies.

Re: Addition

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:24 pm
by FutureTeacher33
[quote="PsyGuy"]In addition to what I've written in the past, there are a handful of foreign language teacher vacancies each year. Each year there seem to be about 4-6 French teaching vacancies.[/quote]

Ouch, that's not as many as I was expecting.

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:52 am
by Whatnow
I am a World Lanuages teacher whose 1st language is English and I have been teaching (Spanish, French and English) in the international school circuit for many years. It is helpful to be a native speaker but it is even better to be an effective teacher. I have known many great language teachers who were not native speakers, and not so good language teachers who were. Often non-native speakers can address the difficulties faced by a student as they might have experienced them as well. Try not to get discouraged by the advice of those who think that they know every thing. There are always a number ( more than 4-5) of second language offerings every year. All IB schools require a second language, and French is a good option, particularly in SE Asia. By having a well-rounded portfolio you are opening up many options, so keep going and good luck to you.

Clarification

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:31 pm
by PsyGuy
To clarify there are about 4-6 FRENCH language vacancies in a year, not 4-6 ALL (combined) second language vacancies.

when you look at combined 2L vacancies there are about 20-25 in a year (language teachers tend to stay put when they find somewhere they are happy with). French is the most common, followed by Spanish, German, Mandarin and Japanese (with the occasional other language. This year there was a latin vacancy). These are separate from 1L language teaching positions (IE. a German teacher, teaching German in a German school)

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:17 pm
by FutureTeacher33
[quote="Whatnow"]I am a World Lanuages teacher whose 1st language is English and I have been teaching (Spanish, French and English) in the international school circuit for many years. It is helpful to be a native speaker but it is even better to be an effective teacher. I have known many great language teachers who were not native speakers, and not so good language teachers who were. Often non-native speakers can address the difficulties faced by a student as they might have experienced them as well. Try not to get discouraged by the advice of those who think that they know every thing. There are always a number ( more than 4-5) of second language offerings every year. All IB schools require a second language, and French is a good option, particularly in SE Asia. By having a well-rounded portfolio you are opening up many options, so keep going and good luck to you.[/quote]

Thanks so much for you response! It is truly encouraging. After speaking with people online and doing my own research, I know that if I will be in the dual BA/MA Program to become a teacher, that I will need to select just 1 major. So, I am deciding now if I would rather teach English literature or French as a second language.

I want to be able to teach internationally and be as marketable as I can be to earn a position, but my long term goal is to open up a Language Immersion school in my hometown..

So I have a lot of thinking to do here.

Re: Clarification

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:21 pm
by FutureTeacher33
[quote="PsyGuy"]To clarify there are about 4-6 FRENCH language vacancies in a year, not 4-6 ALL (combined) second language vacancies.

when you look at combined 2L vacancies there are about 20-25 in a year (language teachers tend to stay put when they find somewhere they are happy with). French is the most common, followed by Spanish, German, Mandarin and Japanese (with the occasional other language. This year there was a latin vacancy). These are separate from 1L language teaching positions (IE. a German teacher, teaching German in a German school)[/quote]

Thanks, PsyGuy for clearing that up.

I know you aren't a language teacher, but I wonder if you know how competitive these vacancies are? And if it will be very hard to earn a position?

Like I said in my previous post, I know that I won't be able to take on a double major while I am in the dual program to earn my BA/MA, so I have to decide if I want to major in English literature or French. I have already explained to you my family situation, so I def. want to make sure I'm marketable for the Internaional market, but also, my long term goal is to open a Language Immersion school in my city (after teaching for a while).


So, I don't know at this point if it's best for me to major in English or French?
:?

That's hard

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:52 pm
by PsyGuy
Thats really hard to say, your starting out and aren't going to graduate for five years. Who knows what the market will be like then. Usually counselors for instance aren't in high demand, but this last yer saw a LOT of demand for college advising counselors.
In general I can say this: English lit has far more vacancies, but of course the candidate pool is larger as well. If your really good in French, and I mean near native fluency, then you could get lucky and find yourself at a nice tier 1 school with your first year in the IS market. You have a much higher chance though of being unemployed, and possibly waiting years for a vacancy to open up. With your family situation, you will be a much harder sell in either scenario. English lit in my opinion is the "safer" bet, but French has a higher and better payoff, though it's a lot more risky.

Re: That's hard

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:14 am
by FutureTeacher33
[quote="PsyGuy"]Thats really hard to say, your starting out and aren't going to graduate for five years. Who knows what the market will be like then. Usually counselors for instance aren't in high demand, but this last yer saw a LOT of demand for college advising counselors.
In general I can say this: English lit has far more vacancies, but of course the candidate pool is larger as well. If your really good in French, and I mean near native fluency, then you could get lucky and find yourself at a nice tier 1 school with your first year in the IS market. You have a much higher chance though of being unemployed, and possibly waiting years for a vacancy to open up. With your family situation, you will be a much harder sell in either scenario. English lit in my opinion is the "safer" bet, but French has a higher and better payoff, though it's a lot more risky.[/quote]

This truly is a hard decision, PsyGuy. There needs to be a crying emoticon lol.

I want to do a double major in French and English, but a lot of ppl are saying that with the dual BA/MA program for teaching that I am taking on WAY too much, like you have also said, and I need to select one program. I was considering doing a double major and then apply to the Taching Master's program, that way it's not dual and I may be able to double major. Not sure if this is a good option though?

Another problem that's arising is that I would LOVE to teach in an immersion school and would hope to open my own Immersion school. But they are mostly elementary schools (at least here in North America) and I would need to be certified to teach elementary. But that's not something that would be in my best interest as far as wanting to have an international teaching career because mostly singles and teaching couples are hired as first priority for elementary positions.


Goshhh!! Stressful!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:05 pm
by ringler24
I think you need to figure out what you really hope to do. To be completely honest with you I think you're being overly ambitious. What you need to ask yourself is whether you want a career as an international teacher or to open an immersion school. For the most part I don't really think there are international immersion schools the way there are in the US. The language of instruction is English there and languages are taught as foreign languages. If your ultimate goal is to open an immersion school you need to refocus on US teaching both to build your experience and credibility as well as for the location of your school. You won't be ale to go and teach French abroad for a set number of years and then just move back to the States and open up an immersion school. In order to fulfill that dream you will need years of experience teaching in immersion programs. If that is truly what you want to do here is my suggestion (This is my exact background for your frame of reference):

Major in your target language (in your case French) as an undergrad. Go ahead and do the double major with English Lit if you want. Study abroad and do everything to master the French language. (This is good in the event that you change your mind or still want the option of international teaching)

After completing your BA do a Masters program in Dual Language/Bilingual Education as a preservice student (meaning you will do your student teaching whie completing the program). This will certify you to teach elementary Ed as well as dul language elementary and likely ESL on all grade levels. It takes about 18 months full time.

Work as a teacher in an immersion school for a good chunk of time.

Open your school.

In the event that you change your course at any point you could always apply to teach abroad through DODEA which is an amazing opportunity and one that I'm hoping for. You'll be qualified to teach French, ESL, and Elementary and if you got a position you would have a very stable financial situation for your family. They also don't care about how many dependents you have so that's a huge plus for me and for you as well.

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:57 pm
by mrspepper
I'm also a French teacher who is not a native speaker. Last year I began looking around for an International Teaching job and my hubby and I are trying to figure out if we're going to go all in and register with an agency this year. I have to admit, I think that being a non-native speaker makes it pretty hard to get a job (and I would say just about impossible if you're talking about West. Europe) in this market. By no means am I an expert, I'm just letting you know what I've seen during my half-derriered search this past year or so. Maybe consider adding an ESL minor? It seems like it's not a lot of credits compared to some other add-on endorsement areas.
For me, I'm considering adding something whether it be ESL, IT, Lib., or I don't know what. Le sigh...

Straight

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:34 pm
by PsyGuy
You have to pick one, your really doing to much a double major in language and lit, in a 5 year masters teaching program is really 4 majors (1 in french, 1 in english, 1 in education and 1 masters). All of that AND a family while student teaching (and dont kid yourself that semester your student teaching is an 8-4 all day, every day of the week "course").
You need to decide on one or the other. The amount of work you have to do to maintain Native fluency and be competitive as a french teacher at an IS is a career in itself because if your not working and living with french you have to make a lot of time to keep your fluency sharp. You need to spend a couple years living/studying in France or a french speaking region, how do you do that and your senior honors english paper, student teach, and study for your masters comprehensive exams (im just assuming you arent going to do a thesis) all in that same year? How are you going to drag your family to France for those couple of years while your studying?

I know several people who have opened up ESL and language immersion schools. What you need is a Masters degree, and LOTS of experience, and hopefully your masters program gives you some business/entrepreneur training/skills. If your running the school you need to be a good manager/admin, the subject mastery isnt as important (you hire teachers who have that). What you is a lot of experience in the business. Identifying the location, targeting your market, hiring your staff, and then delivering good value to your customers for their money. It sounds easier then it is.

which ever one you do you need to decide now, because the french cant wait. Youw ant to spend your junior and senior year abroad, which means you only have this year and next to get through your general ed classes, and a majority of your french major in the next 2 years. So that when your in France you will have the scheduling flexibility to take electives (because you will have a far narrower schedule of courses to choose from) and your education courses and/or French immersion courses.

FYI: If you complete your degree in France at a French university and pursue a H.Bach (Honors Bachelors degree) you can "read" (meaning take the comprehensive exams) for your masters at the same time, with no (or very little) additional coursework. The requirements are pretty narrow, but essentially the disciplines have to be the same (same faculty). So if you did a H.Bach in French Comparative Lit, you could read for the M.Litt (Masters of Literature) in your final semester as well.