The International Schools Review Forum

As someone who is certified in the state of Virginia let me give you the correct information regarding licensure since much of what PsyGuy states is incorrect.

First off, what you need to obtain original licensure depends on the program that you complete. For example, in order to get certified at VCU you must complete all subject coursework that the VA Dept. of Education states as being needed, whereas other programs will get you licensed in any field that you can pass the Praxis II content test in. You take education courses in these programs but they don't care whether you have an undergraduate major in the content area or not. I know a guy who has an MBA but will get certification in biology and social studies. He wasn't a biology major but was able to pass the Praxis II. This guy will choose to student teach in both areas or will choose one area to student teach in.

In the state of Virginia you can add any other endorsement to your license through testing except special education, elementary education, and ESL. These three endorsements require coursework and special education and elementary education require additional tests. There is no Praxis II test for ESL in the state of Virginia.

The scores needed to pass the Praxis II content tests in Virginia are some of the highest in the nation. You can check out www.ets.org/praxis to see what scores are needed and to see the basics about the tests. That being said you only need about an 80% on the Praxis II to pass in Virginia. For example, the passing score in social studies is 161, with the highest score being 200, whereas West Virginia requires a 148.

Teachers receive either a collegiate professional license or a postgraduate professional license. A postgraduate professional license is given when an applicant has a master's degree (doesn't matter in what) versus only having a bachelor's degree for the collegiate license. They are both valid for 5 years and in order to recertify a teacher needs to do 180 hours of professional development. If you have a collegiate license then you must take a class either in the content area or education; this class is worth 90 points. Thus, a person could take 2 courses and get recertified. You should realize that most schools do professional development and you can get paperwork for this PD and it will count towards your recertification.

@dutchschultz

No, it's pretty correct, your post confirms most of what I wrote. Thanks for the deeper info though what Virginia will and will not accept as PD towards recertification. All states are different and mine was a general response, not specific to Virginia.

@futureteacher

Primary has a lot of demand, but it's a very saturated teacher pool. Many schools save primary positions for teaching couples early in the recruiting season. Typically, one teacher will be in something like math, science, computers and the other in primary. It would be very hard and I wouldn't advise becoming a primary teacher with your family situation. There would be far too many teachers that wold be cheaper to hire.

I have one more questions.

As far as student teaching goes, does a governor school for government & international studies hold the same weight as an IB school? Just wondering.

[quote="PsyGuy"]@dutchschultz

No, it's pretty correct, your post confirms most of what I wrote. Thanks for the deeper info though what Virginia will and will not accept as PD towards recertification. All states are different and mine was a general response, not specific to Virginia.

@futureteacher

Primary has a lot of demand, but it's a very saturated teacher pool. Many schools save primary positions for teaching couples early in the recruiting season. Typically, one teacher will be in something like math, science, computers and the other in primary. It would be very hard and I wouldn't advise becoming a primary teacher with your family situation. There would be far too many teachers that wold be cheaper to hire.[/quote]

Thanks, PsyGuy! You have been extremly helpful and patient with answering all of my questions. You are appreciated!!

[quote="dutchschultz"]As someone who is certified in the state of Virginia let me give you the correct information regarding licensure since much of what PsyGuy states is incorrect.

First off, what you need to obtain original licensure depends on the program that you complete. For example, in order to get certified at VCU you must complete all subject coursework that the VA Dept. of Education states as being needed, whereas other programs will get you licensed in any field that you can pass the Praxis II content test in. You take education courses in these programs but they don't care whether you have an undergraduate major in the content area or not. I know a guy who has an MBA but will get certification in biology and social studies. He wasn't a biology major but was able to pass the Praxis II. This guy will choose to student teach in both areas or will choose one area to student teach in.

In the state of Virginia you can add any other endorsement to your license through testing except special education, elementary education, and ESL. These three endorsements require coursework and special education and elementary education require additional tests. There is no Praxis II test for ESL in the state of Virginia.

The scores needed to pass the Praxis II content tests in Virginia are some of the highest in the nation. You can check out www.ets.org/praxis to see what scores are needed and to see the basics about the tests. That being said you only need about an 80% on the Praxis II to pass in Virginia. For example, the passing score in social studies is 161, with the highest score being 200, whereas West Virginia requires a 148.

Teachers receive either a collegiate professional license or a postgraduate professional license. A postgraduate professional license is given when an applicant has a master's degree (doesn't matter in what) versus only having a bachelor's degree for the collegiate license. They are both valid for 5 years and in order to recertify a teacher needs to do 180 hours of professional development. If you have a collegiate license then you must take a class either in the content area or education; this class is worth 90 points. Thus, a person could take 2 courses and get recertified. You should realize that most schools do professional development and you can get paperwork for this PD and it will count towards your recertification.[/quote]

Thank you so much for the information! It is just so much information that they provided on the website, so I think you for explaining it in a way that I can understand.

No, it's not that they aren't comparable. Governors schools are magnet school for gifted and talented students. In an IB school they use the IB curriculum. That's what you need experience teaching. It's possible a Governors school in Virginia could be an IB school., meaning they used the IB curriculum.

You can find the list of IB schools in Virginia here:

http://www.ibo.org/school/search/index.cfm?nextStart=1

I just heard back from a teacher in an international school in Beirut! She gave me some info on her experience teaching, which I didn't know!

This is copy/pasted from a portion of her email:
ESL vs. English:
I have my masters in ESL and the certificate I got in NYC if for grades K-12 meaning I can virtually teach anything from a self contained classroom at the elementary level to a high school English class. It's very versatile! I think ESL is a huge bonus to have because all schools have ELLs these days and that will just be one leg up on the competition if you can teach them. Also, if you are looking to go international, at least some portion of the kids won't have English as first language so you can use your ESL credentials as a selling point.

I had NO IDEA that I could major in ESL instead and be able to teach ESL and English in the international school setting. This is awesome!

I have the same license from New York State/ city. It only qualifies you to work with ELLs, not high school English. I mean I can work with high schoolers but I would be their ESL teacher not their English teacher. I would be really surprised if an Inernational school would consider you qualified to teach any kind of Enlish literature or high school English. The license and experience does not prepare you for that.

My school is confusing me, though.

This is what my school's prgram says:
Master Of Teaching

Concentration in Secondary Education

These programs prepare the student for a career as a secondary school teacher — grades six through 12. Teaching endorsements are available in English, history/social studies, mathematics, biology, physics, chemistry and earth science. An added endorsement is available in English as a second language.

It looks like it doesn't offer strictly an ESL degree. It says ESL is offered as an added endorsement. What does this mean exactly? I am so confused and sometimes the school takes a while to reply.

I was able to find this:
The School of Education offers the Virginia Department of Education (VDOE) ESL K-12 endorsement for pre-service and in-service teachers.
You can earn the endorsement by planning with an advisor to incorporate the ESL courses into an existing Master’s or certificate program or pursue the endorsement only as a non-degree seeking student. The ESL endorsement program at VCU requires 18 credit hours of ESL coursework and 6 credit hours of a foreign language

[quote="ringler24"]I have the same license from New York State/ city. It only qualifies you to work with ELLs, not high school English. I mean I can work with high schoolers but I would be their ESL teacher not their English teacher. I would be really surprised if an Inernational school would consider you qualified to teach any kind of Enlish literature or high school English. The license and experience does not prepare you for that.[/quote]

Thank you for clearing that up. I misunderstood what she said.

After looking into it furthur, it looks like my school doesn't even offer an ESL program, anyway.
It appears that I will have to major in English for my Bachelor's degree and while I'm earning my Master's in Teaching I will need to enroll in additional courses to simply receive an ESL endorsement. Not sure how helpful that will be. PsyGuy said that international schools look for a degree in ESL, which isn't offered at my school.

When it come to ESL teachers ISs look for someone that's certified with a state certificate and have ESL experience in a K-12 school. Very few people actually get a degree in ESL, until a masters, because there aren't many universities that offer it. your schools added endorsement in ESL sounds like a minor and will be fine.

A K-12 ESL certificate normally doesn't let you teach English Lit, but with advance enough students your ESL class could look and be run like a regular English Lit class.

You could major in English Lit and get your degree in that and then do the minor in ESL to add that endorsement, and that wold be a nice marketable combination.

What the schools statement means is that there education department can certify you in the core subjects, of English, math, science, and social studies, but they don't have an initial certification in ESL, so to be an ESL teacher you can take their added endorsement area and after you get your certificate in English lit immediately add the ESL endorsement. You just can't do ESL by itself.

[quote="PsyGuy"]When it come to ESL teachers ISs look for someone that's certified with a state certificate and have ESL experience in a K-12 school. Very few people actually get a degree in ESL, until a masters, because there aren't many universities that offer it. your schools added endorsement in ESL sounds like a minor and will be fine.

A K-12 ESL certificate normally doesn't let you teach English Lit, but with advance enough students your ESL class could look and be run like a regular English Lit class.

You could major in English Lit and get your degree in that and then do the minor in ESL to add that endorsement, and that wold be a nice marketable combination.

What the schools statement means is that there education department can certify you in the core subjects, of English, math, science, and social studies, but they don't have an initial certification in ESL, so to be an ESL teacher you can take their added endorsement area and after you get your certificate in English lit immediately add the ESL endorsement. You just can't do ESL by itself.[/quote]

That sounds very encouraging! I'm excited about this. That's what I'll do. I'll major in English lit. & take the additional courses w/ the Master's program to earn my ESL endorsement.

One question about that: It does state that to obtain the endorsement while in the Master's program, you need to take 6 credits for a foreign language. Do you think it'll make me more marketable to major in English lit w/ a minor in French & take the additional courses within the Master's program to obtain my ESL endorsement?

Also, when I do student teaching/look for jobs in the States, what should I do exactly? Should I student teach/find work as an English lit. teacher or as an ESL teacher? How would I go about gaining IB experience-I'm not sure that IB schools offer an ESL class here. Not sure what'll be more marketable for me to do...

Another question:

With being certified to teach ESL from K-12, if I were to teach at the lower level (K-5) how would that work? Would I be their primary teacher and teach everything in English like an elementary teacher would? Or how would that work exactly?

I think French is marketable.

Your school will assign you to a school, you want to request an IB school, and English lit, would be language A English in an IB diploma program. That's what you want. Otherwise an English assignment in English in an MYP program would be second. The problem with ESL is you'd be likely t be assigned to a inner city school with ESL, and that's not going to have an IB program. You really want to be doing student teaching in an IB school doesn't really matter what.

In primary ESL you would either be doing inclusion, meaning you work with the primary teacher as sort of an assistant or co teacher, or your doing pull out meaning when the kids do language arts they come to your room instead.