MartElla wrote: "Not really sure Traveller's ideas about British teachers are helpful to this site, nor to this topic which was apparently about curriculum,.."

This is a bit like shooting the messenger. Read shadowjack's comments about his/her experience in a UK school, never mind a British international school. A friend worked at a British school in West Africa, and left because of the shouting by management. Look, I recognize that it happens in many places and teachers from a range of nationalities shout at students. That really isn't the issue. The issue here is that the ethos in British schools seems different to that in American schools and philosophically the systems, methodology and approach is different. To say my ideas aren't helpful to this site because I've shared my experience and what I've heard from colleagues runs counter to the whole purpose of this site. Twoteachers, who started this thread, said they were American and wanted to know if or how they could get into a British Curriculum school. I've worked with good and bad teachers from both countries, and I've worked in US and UK schools, the ethos is different.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the news report on Sky by the education authorities that some teachers were trying to sabotage and undermine the SATs tests? Or why parents of 5 & 6 year old children were threatening to pull their children out of school to prevent them writing national tests.

Shadowjack wrote: "However, as I have posted elsewhere, Twoteachers, the UK system is all about predicted grades and tests. Students will come to you in KS 2 or 3 or 4 with predicted grades. Woe betide you if they don't meet them! Best for you that they exceed them, as you become 'value added'. This is not a comment on the quality of the teachers in the UK, its a comment on the approach, mindset, ethos, philosophy, and what is valued in British education. If this is not true then say so, otherwise you have to recognize that an American teacher, like twoteachers, could end up in a situation that they hate and feel trapped in. I understand that you may not recognize that the UK system could be a problem for American teachers, at least let someone else share the good news.

It would be really good to hear the perspectives of US teachers who have worked or are working in BC schools.

Shadylane, while I know there are many really good teachers in the UK, and UK teachers working abroad, my experience of UK trained colleagues, genuine British teachers, and the feedback from friends in other places doesn't read well. They just don't seem to have the same skills levels in affirming students and managing difficult students. The Year 2 teacher down the corridor from my room really does shout at some of his students in the corridor. To the British Upper and Lower Primary Coordinators, who sit in an office 5 m from his classroom, he is considered a good teacher. Our British teachers have savaged 2nd language students in staff meetings, called their work rubbish, and when I've called them out on it I'm told this happens at home.

You're probably right about the Bell Curve, its more like a wedge, with a select few able to attain an acceptable standard. Philosophically the span between most of the UK teachers I've worked with and US colleagues is closer to the Pacific than the Channel. I've had UK colleagues denigrate US Masters degrees, perhaps because they're 2 year courses instead of 1 year courses. I don't know. Then, of course, there's the British media. The forums on the TES make teaching in the UK sound like a battlefield. Perhaps the teaching profession in the UK is under threat from the government and parents, but it doesn't sound like a context where I would care to teach. Private schools are continually attacked in the British media, and I would think that they are the closest relatives to international schools. When a society views the public naming and shaming of 'poorly performing' schools as a strategy to address the problem what more is there to say.

TT, I wasn't trying to discourage you, its just that philosophically the US and UK systems are quite distinct and it can be difficult moving from one to the other. The last thing you want to do is end up in a school without realising what you're getting into. The UK system is highly structured and teachers that have grown up through that system and are trained to work with the BC know what's expected. When you come in cold and want to use learning centers only to find that your line manager/s don't understand them, and you're excited about the Daily 5 and no one's heard about them it can be a bit demoralising.

I'm sure there are BC schools you would enjoy working at, it all depends on whether they're open to other approaches and methodologies and whether they value anything other than the BC.

While there are many BC schools in the international schools context there are lots and lots of others. You're much better served trying to get into a PYP/MYP/DP school. IPC is also expanding and although I think it has a British orientation its not BC. I'm open to correction here so do some research. If you're wanting to make a career in international education I would say the IB is the way to go.

As someone with a US background you go down the British Curriculum route at your peril. Of course this depends on your personality, your perspective on assessment, whether you're looking at Primary or Secondary, and how closely aligned the school/group of schools is to education in the UK, etc. etc.

If you're considering a Primary position I would suggest you find out about the Ros Wilson writing assessment scale and descriptors. I would find out about the degree of micro management you'll be working under, whether you can accommodate the British philosophy on assessment and grading to the Bell Curve, whether you're comfortable with teachers shouting at students, whether you're comfortable with a rules based student management system, find out about 'Golden Time', how it's applied, what it's purpose is (reward & punishment), and whether the school will value you as someone who is non-British. Mostly talk to US teachers who've worked in British schools.

Secondary will be different to Primary, obviously, but do you have long term plans to work in a British curriculum environment?

If you're happy with the answers you get go for it.

Yew Chung has schools in Beijing, Shanghai, Qingdao, Chongqing and Hong Kong. I can't believe all their positions are tentative. There are at least 50 vacancies shown on the Job Opportunities page on the website, and while some may already be filled they also don't post every position there either. Were you interviewing for one campus/city or open to positions on any of their campuses?

Remember that it's the Chinese New Year holiday and everyone is off work, not just teachers. They probably don't start again until the 10th of February.

I have no problem with your first point, that's been my experience too. But that's not the point with our friend, and precisely the point. Different people have different experiences but why would anyone wade in and bad mouth or praise schools, in places that they've never worked. It's one thing for people to disagree about the same school where they have worked, it's a whole different thing to take a side when you really have no idea.

Some people who have worked in the ME, and love the region, are deeply offended by his comments. The nature of his contributions run counter the the whole concept of international understanding. I'm not talking about saying a school is bad and the admin don't stand up for the staff, I'm talking about bad mouthing the arabic culture and peoples. Let's not focus too tightly on the ME, his opinions range far and wide across the planet.

I have no desire to work in the ME so why would I give advice on a raft of schools that I know nothing about. I mean, seriously, why? What makes this situation so absurd is that everywhere you look on this website his insidious presence is there. Even if I want to ignore his posts they're everywhere, like weeds.

The reason I've bothered to reply is that I'm incensed that the moderator/s of this forum, who will be under no illusion about the value of his advice, continue to allow him to post yet remove posts that point out that his advice is often misleading and dishonest.

Since you and seinfeld feel that I'm the bad guy here, there are at least 3 other posters on this thread, up to this point, that have issues with our friend. Surely you read the thread title and opening comment. Enough said.

There was a time when I defended Dave PsyGuy, he does sound so plausible. He comes across as very knowledgeable and well travelled, as he has comments on just about every country and school on the planet.

What both of you appear to have missed are the reactions from people who have worked in the places and schools he comments on, that clearly show he doesn't know what he's talking about. It drives those people crazy because it misrepresents the reality and often paints those places in a bad light. If you think I'm racist, and there's clearly no evidence of it unless you've chosen to change the definition of the term, do yourself a favour and read his comments about schools in the Middle East, amongst others.

Seriously, if you value what he says, good for you, but it's certainly very clear that there are many, many posters here that don't and would appreciate it if he stuck to what he knew and the places where he's worked. If ISR is going to let him post information and advice that is clearly dishonest, distorted and racist I object to them removing any of my posts that point this out.

It beggars belief that the moderator of this forum continues to allow Dave Psyguy to continue posting. He is racist, bigoted, biased, ignorant about most of the contexts that he comments on and his information sources are out of date.

This forum is intended to help teachers who are new to the international schools scene and who are looking for serious, honest and useful information about international schools and the countries where they are located. His incessant contributions are not helpful and he drives experienced posters crazy with his opinionated and dishonest contributions.

Anyone who takes what he says seriously does so to their own disadvantage.

Moderator, you've already removed one of my posts on this issue yet you continue to allow him to post. It's ironic that this website claims to want to help teachers working internationally and is all for exposing bad management yet continues to allow this fraud to post. I have no problem with you removing my posts if you're going to be even handed in the way that you moderate all posts, but if you won't moderate Dave PsyGuy's posts when he clearly is out of line then this forum becomes a joke. ISR then becomes guilty of misleading teachers about the reality of the schools and contexts that teachers are wanting information about.[color=darkred][/color]

If I could wade back in ....

Nice to hear some rational thoughts and sensible discussion Lifesnotsobad. Thanks for joining in.

Higgy, a couple of thoughts come to mind here - while you don't like the Foundation you obviously agree that the package at YCIS isn't so bad (actually it looks rather good against many other schools), which shows that Dave PsyGuy is way off the mark. You're both in the same Anti-YCIS camp but you're confused about whether the package is good or bad.

You remind me of my Year 4s with your infantile name calling - 'lifeless troll', 'Traveller 1 Whines', and admin that are 'cheerleaders', 'ass kissers' and 'by and large useless' - which is a pity because it shows you have closed mind to perspectives that don't match your own. The fact that you can't accept that the only people who would want to work there cannot be good teachers or administrators means that you must be pretty self-opinionated. If you don't like something explain yourself in a reasoned manner rather than having a tantrum in the sandpit.

Durianfan, thanks for the perspective on dental costs in China. DAVE, please take note.

Higgy, I have a question for you. If you're such a smart teacher how come you ended up at YCIS? Surely you did your research and found out about the organisation before accepting a job there?

You CHOSE to work there. Either you didn't do your research or you couldn't get a job at one of the 'Tier 1' schools and settled for YCIS just to get into China. Instead of being grateful that they offered you a job, and an opportunity to work in China, you're having a tantrum because you made the cardinal error of not finding out about the school before getting a job there.

I've never pretended it's a top tier school, although they're making a serious effort to rise to the challenge, but it certainly isn't the kind of school that you're painting it as. Seriously, if the admin were as bad as you say they'd never be able to run schools of 800 to 1200 students. They'd crash and burn before the year was out. Again, if they were as bad as you say they are, you'd be reading about it every month on ISR, which you don't.

OK David, just tell us when you worked there and which campus.

As you have never worked for Yew Chung, like all the other schools that you waffle about, you have no idea what you're talking about. Quoting from old documents, out of context, is an example of your half-truths.

I don't have a credibility problem, you do. Your posts on this forum drive people crazy because of your ignorance and half-truths. Your posts are also often racist, bigoted and biased.

Your distain for administrators is somewhat ironic given that you post as a knowledgeable administrator. If I can't defend the school I work for, and have invested my life in for the past 6 years, it really doesn't matter whether I'm an administrator or a teacher, because in your distorted view I don't have the right to say anything.

So :
- If most international schools are 'thrifty' about who they hire why would they offer a 'gold' medical plan to their staff? No, most offer just the 'standard' plan. I work there and I don't pay 1 cent towards my medical plan. I get the same level of cover as I got from AETNA and International SOS at other schools.

- 8000 RMB is 1284.61 on the XE Currency Converter website.

- You have no idea about Yew Chung salaries. As I work there I do. The new package extends to all staff. The steps go beyond the current scale. When you have no idea about a school it's better that you say nothing.

- POST 1: "Yew Chung in (Quingdo) attracts mostly entry level teachers"
POST 2: "I didnt say young in age, but young in experience. Young TEACHERS, not young PEOPLE"
I'm surprised you're up on this data as you don't work there and never have. I've come across surprisingly few 50 year old inexperienced teachers. One sort of implies the other dontcha think?

- The Foundation and its schools aren't perfect but it certainly isn't what you claim it to be.

David, a little something from your Mongolian thread comment - Mongolians call 'Lunar New Year' Tsagaan Tsar. I think it's above your paygrade to talk about Mongolia, because like Yew Chung, you don't know what you're talking about.

*Yawn* this is infantile and boring ..
As I said, forget PsyGuy's posts he's never worked for Yew Chung and he doesn't know what he's talking about. It pains me to waste time replying but his deliberate lies and misinformation really do need to be countered. You, DAVE, have no idea about this school, or the Foundation, so go and play somewhere else.

The medical plan is no different from other main stream international schools, they insure through MSH. The dental plan is with on a par with the rest of the medical plan. German dentists tend to cost a little more than 8 RMB.

8000 RMB is over 1000 USD a year, which beats the 500 USD you get at many schools.

The airfare, if one way, is reimbursed IN FULL. If it's a return fare then half is paid. Where do you get your information from?

The salary cap of 10 years was upgraded to 12 years in 2009. No wonder you get it all wrong, you're 4 years out of date. Next year there will be 16 steps on the scale with a starting cap at 9 years.

One example: Western Academy of Beijing, start at maximum step 8 out of 16. That sounds like half way to me. It's on their school website. Check it out.

The 53 year old teacher who started on Friday doesn't sound that young to me.

Every teacher is issued with a MacBook Pro, including all the Chinese teachers and there are SMARTboards in every classroom. That sounds like a pretty crummy school to me.

Put on your glasses now DAVE - nobody is suggesting this is a Tier 1 school. Neither is it a Tier 3 school, with a private owner milking the parents and teachers having to buy all their own resources to be able to teach. There are campuses in Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Qingdao and Chongqing. You're quoting one incident in Qingdao, one of the small campuses. Across all the campuses they must hire a minimum of 500 expatriates teachers.

If you're a teacher, which I'm starting to doubt, you should know that at every school there are teachers that have been let down by the system, one way or another. International schools are so much more complex than national schools so, yes, it is likely that things don't always work as they should. But to slam the whole Foundation because of a problem in Qingdao is absurd.

But just to clarify the question of recognition of year's service - it should be straight, year for year recognition. So maybe you don't have all your facts there DAVID. Have you met her? Did you talk to her? When did she work there?

As you haven't challenged the 5000 USD salary on Step 12, paid from day one of starting, one must assume that there's nothing wrong with that.

Your facts about the school are dated, at best, and you really don't have any idea about this school.

*Sigh* more PsyGuy nonsense and half truths.

Flight reimbursement. Reimbursing new staff for their flight tickets happens at a number of international schools. Practically it makes sense. It certainly shouldn't take 90 days at Yew Chung - a new hire arrived on Thursday and was reimbursed on Friday. Usually it takes a couple of days to a week.

Medical Health Care plan. Pretty standard and is the same as many other international schools. The school pays full cover for the contract holders. This year it includes dental.

Salary. New hires are given the appropriate credit for their experience. If you've taught for 12 years you go straight to the top step. This is not the case with many international schools who have maximum/minimum step for all new hires, irrespective of years worked. It's usually half way or below on the salary scale.

Salary. It's definitely NOT the lowest in China or across the international schools circuit. For some reason they don't publish their salary scale, even internally. This is a mystery as it's reasonably attractive. The current top step is about 5000 US after tax. Then there is the gratuity of 11% at end of first contract and 20% at end of 2nd contract and there after. There's also a PD allowance of 8000 RMB from the 2nd contract on.

They've just revised their salary scale which takes effect from the 2013/ 2014 school year. You have to wonder why they have improved the salary package and benefits if they have such a poor regard for their teachers, as claimed. Yew Chung is a large organisation, and its not perfect. However I've never come across a perfect school, and small schools have their problems too.

I have a non-teaching spouse but no kids. A non-teaching spouse does make it more difficult, of course depending on what they're qualified to do, but two or even one child can be a deal breaker.

You definitely have to box clever and look for regions or schools that have difficulty attracting staff. Three regions that come to mind: Central Asia, Africa and the Middle East. Some countries in South America, like Colombia, also come to mind. I've taught in Cali, and while it has a bad reputation, we never felt in any danger while we lived there ('99 to '01). We had a great time there and it's a place I'd go back to.

From my perspective you have to weigh up whether you're happy to end up in some interesting but perhaps less desirable places earning a live-able but not fantastic salary. If it's the experience you're after then you'll definitely find a job, but if it's a good package that you're after in the hope of making money I think you may be disappointed.

One other thing to bear in mind. While you may want to be an elementary homeroom teacher, be willing to take on other roles, eg ESL or Special Needs. Schools in unusual places value multifaceted individuals.

Our experience has been that communities in difficult places often have a richness and a closeness that those in large western cities don't have. You're likely to make some of your best friends and have some of your happiest memories living there.

"I'm resigned to the fact that I would not be considered for a teaching position at this point in my career but I haven't given up on the idea of being a contributing part of interntional academics."

I'd say you have more chance of securing a teaching position than a Coordinator's position, which are usually quite sought after.